love the dream.. and i honestly think he was way better individually in his PRIME and would have killed Duncan one on one.. but it's not so obsurd to compare Duncan's entire career vs Hakeems. Hakeem just declinded too fast after his 2nd championship while Duncan just keeps on going and going.
I have followed both of their careers very closely. Obviously, both are great players, BUT Hakeem is just in a league by himself. Surely the most athletic seven footer ever. Lateral quickness was off the charts. Explosive jumper. Amazing body control. Dominating attitude. Duncan is a different kind of player. Very clever. A basketball purist and so on. Their careers were amazing and Duncan's is still unfolding.
dont diagree with you at all but lets look at their last 3 years .. and duncan looks like he could play another two years at a decent level The last 3 seasons of the dreams career he averaged like 9 pts and 6 rebs.. Duncan is still at 18 and 10 and he's still going!
I think you should look at their age more than their seasons. At 36 (Duncan's age atm) they're both producing the same numbers...we will see what Duncan is putting up at 38. I say it's very close to what Dream did as well.
In Dream's 15th year, he averaged 18.9. In Duncan's 15th year, he averaged 17.8. The only significant difference is that in Dream's 16th year, he averaged 10, and Duncan averaged 18. One year. You have no idea if Duncan can play at this level next year- maybe, but you don't know for sure. If Duncan puts up even 15 and 8 for the next 2 years, I'll give you the career-long argument. But you can't make a case for Duncan having an overall longer period of excellence based on 1 year. Hakeem's numbers surpassed him in many of those years, which makes it a wash. And how about Hakeem getting credit for leading his team over the Lakers and taking the Celtics to 6 games in 1986, two of the greatest teams ever? I know it's all about scoreboard, but you could almost make an argument that that playoff run was more impressive, as well as the 1995 run, than anything Duncan has been involved with.
Dandorotik: Please post stats that factor in pace. E.g. Offensive Rebounding: Hakeem has a 10.3 OReb Pct to Timmeh's 9.9 so they were similar offensive rebounders, Hakeem being a bit better. Defensive Rebounding: Hakeem 23.8 versus Timmeh's 26.5: Timmeh wins this one by quite a lot. Rebounding Overall: Timmeh is a slightly better rebounder career-wise. Note that at the beginning of his career, Olajuwon was a lot better at offensive rebounding than Tim. On the other hand, Tim has been extremely consistently GREAT on the defensive boards. The nod goes slightly to Tim, even against prime Hakeem, although the two were approximately the same when Hakeem was at his prime. Assists: I hate assists as a measure of passing ability and A/TO will tell a stupid story here, but the edge goest to Tim (16.5 AST%) vs Hakeem (12.1 AST%). Steals: Hakeem wins this by a mile. His great 2.4 STL% beats Tim's 1.1 STL% by a wide margin. Blocks: Some estimate that this is the least important box-score stat, Hakeem wins this by quite a lot: 5.4 BLK% to Tim's 4.6 BLK%. Average Win shares per 48: Tim owns Hakeem here with .217 vs. the still stellar .177 Hakeem posted. However I think WS/48 dislikes Hakeem quite a lot. Hakeem posted a career wp/48 of 0.295 which is INSANELY good. Otherwordly good. Duncan OTOH posts a still crazy 0.230 throughout his career, while still being on his average (0.230). WP48 REALLY likes David Robinson though and prefers him over both. All in all, I'd take Hakeem over Duncan (because I trust WP48 more than WS48) and because of the eye test. If I had to take a front court for my all time team, it'd be either Hakeem-Duncan or Hakeem-Rodman. For comparison: last year LeBron posted a WP48 of .360 and has a career avg of .268 while Kobe has a career avg of .162.
This is a joke... Spurs fans who are too young to remember need to give up this fantasy of Tim somehow being better than Dream. Just because he was on your team doesn't make him some amazing player. He is good, but Hakeem had abilities that Tim does not come close to possessing. Also think about this... each player was next to different players. These stats comparisons are invalid. Just look at the players play and tell me what your eyes see.
My starting 5 would be: C- Olajuwon PF- Duncan SF- Bird SG- Jordan PG- Magic As far as who I think the top 10 players in the history of the NBA, it would be: 1. Jordan 2. Magic 3. Bird 4. Olajuwon 5. Chamberlain 6. Kareem 7. Robertson (Oscar, not Nate) 8. Duncan 9. James (LeBron, not Mike) 10. Shaq That leaves out a heck of a lot of players- Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Bryant, Thomas, West, Malone (moses), Barry, etc. And that list could certainly change.
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Admit it your still sore about the Admiral getting bent over and done. Tim and Hakeem are great and underrated around the country. Shaq and Horry always say Hakeem was best center. I'll say Tim is by far the best Power Forward.
Every time they appeared on the court together, Dream wiped the floor with Duncan. And that is with David Robinson attempting to guard Dream with Duncan only supplying help. It is not talked about, but IMO the most significant measure of Olajuwon's greatness was his impact on the rules. Dream's play pretty much single-handedly forced the league to change its illegal defense rule. Every team went illegal to defend Dream (I'm looking at you, George Karl) because Dream would have hung 50+ on them per night without the help.
Bill Russell? My list is: 1. Jordan 2. Russell 3. Kareem 4. Magic 5. Duncan 6. Shaq ( interchangeable with Duncan, really) 7. Hakeem 8. Bird 9. Wilt 10. Oscar.
very good list- and no offense, but you had to have watched Larry Bird play to know how good he was. In no universe at all is Tim Duncan nor Shaq a better basketball player than Bird. None. IMHO. Same for Hakeem vs. Shaq. And yes, I would replace Shaq with Russell- I just don't put as much an emphasis on rings as much as others. Rings are a team reward, ultimately.
People fail to remember that the era that Hakeem competed in were filled with HOF and players that dominated their position...Duncan, while rightly is the greatest PF in history, will be looked at in history as a guy that dominated without competition in his spot(Same goes for Howard)...In Duncan's remarkable career, who were the top PF in the game that could even compete...im really not sure if there is any(aside from maybe Garnett)... Hakeem in a head to head match with Duncan would really be able to disrupt Duncan's offensive game, and make Duncan a liability...Hakeem played so fast for a big man...Duncan would be tremendously slow against Hakeem...just based on talent alone, Hakeem wins this battle...
Pops is the man who sometimes uses another Spurs big to defend the other team's best big man to protect Duncan. Never happened with Hakeem. Pops knows the answer to the OP's question.
That was due to Hakeem sharing the front court with Otis Thorpe. OT is 5th in total rebounds as a Rocket. Duncan only had Robinson for a few season and not at his prime.
Forget all about the numbers and rings, if you watched basketball, Hakeem was by far the superior player and its not even close. Its like comparing MJ to Kobe. Both may have similar stats and numbers of rings, but if you watched them play, MJ was by far the superior player.
