1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Monta Ellis is the best guard to pair with James Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Ultramagnus, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. zdrav

    zdrav Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    79
    I don't get this. All along, I thought the consensus among those who wanted Lin replaced was that James Harden needed a role-playing PG who could hit his 3s and play smothering defense.

    Yeah, I can't think of a better role-playing PG than Chris Paul.
     
  2. Ultramagnus

    Ultramagnus Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    11
    Explain why he is not a good fit. I'm sure you haven't really given it much thought at all. Ellis' game can fit in any team. There is no team that cannot use a mid-range scorer. What's sure to not work though is if he is the lead man, as he is not good enough for that. This will not be the case with the Rockets since this is James' team.

    Do you really think a team that has both James Harden and Monta Ellis will be a losing team? I mean, come on. Having two elite scorers who have their ways of scoring at will and who find fellow teammates at a good rate as well does not make a tanking team.

    I have exhaustively explained and outlined the merits of this proposition. If you consider that kind of poster a "troll", I'd like to know what you would consider a non-troll. I mean, come on. I have not actually read a valid counter point, all just remarks.
     
  3. zdrav

    zdrav Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    79
    If the only publication that has floated your proposal is The Onion, then your idea probably sucks.
     
  4. rinklob

    rinklob Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    2
    Oh my goodness. I needed a good laugh. Thanks a lot. :lol:
     
  5. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,180
    Likes Received:
    281
    Here's the thing. The way you've continually phrased Ellis, the way you've continually described him .... is as a role player. And I still don't know what he does. You keep comparing him with Parker, but Parker does EVERYTHING better than Ellis. Everything.

    He can hit the open mid-range? Great. Fantastic. So can 90% of the shooting guards in this league. He can create his own shot? No, not really, or he wouldn't even such a horrific scorer. He can slash. So can Trevor Ariza. And this is completely ignoring some of the horrible tendencies he has, such as the fact that if you are shooting 23% from 3, and STILL haven't figured out "don't take multiple 3's a game" in his 8th season in the league, I'm not sure why you think he'll learn now.

    At best, I'll say that if Ellis was willing to come here for the MLE, AND was willing to figure out things about his shot selection, than maybe I'll take him on. But he's not going to do either. He will seek double digit dollars. So, congrats, you're paying a guy who's the third-string after Lin and Harden double digit dollars to hit mid range jumpers and drive to the rim. What a great allocation of resources.
     
  6. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,904
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    A lot of people have already brought up his horrible inefficiency. You can make all the excuses you want, but facts are facts. This year, he's shooting 40% from the field and 23.5% from the 3pt line. Horrible.
     
  7. morpheus133

    morpheus133 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    180
    Both Ellis and Harden dominate the ball, and Ellis is a worse 3 pt shooter than Lin. I'd take Ellis on an affordable contract as a 6th man role like JR Smith is doing for the Knicks. But for the money he will be looking for in a starting role? No thanks.

    I'm sure they win some games with that line up, after all the Bucks are slotted to be a play off team with Jennings and Ellis. But it isn't likely to make you a contender because Ellis is just as likely to shoot you out of a game as he is to shoot you in it. He is an undersized ball dominatating shooting guard who is a poor defender and will command more money than he is worth.

    The Rocket's game was not your typical Monta Ellis game, considering he averages less than 5 free throws a game and got 11 attempts last game. 27 points sounds great til you realize that it took 24 shots to get there, and that's of course not counting the attempts that lead to 11 free throws being shot. As a 6th man on an affordable contract I'd be fine with it, but if you are going to pay him to be your 2nd "star" then you have a pretty low ceiling for your team.
     
  8. Ultramagnus

    Ultramagnus Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    11
    Kevin Love is shooting 35.2% from the field and 21.7% from threes this year. Horrible too. He's not playing now though. Yet people still want him for his "long range" ability.

    Like I said previously, a bad stretch or year does not invalidate a players abilities.

    Monta is capable of shooting better. Shot a respectable 36% in 2010, with work he could come back to that at least. A shooting coach and proper guidance in terms of shot selection will improve his abysmall current year figures. If Jeremy can improve his shot after receiving a lot of criticism on his 3point shooting, why wouldn't Monta when he had shown capability of doing so in the past. As a not, James Harden is hitting 36% this year.

    I'm not getting him for his 3 point shooting though.

    With the spacing that Harden, Parsons and D-Mo for example generates. With Asik setting screens for him, he will have a lot of scoring opportunities up close or in the mid range area. Same thing that Lin does yes, but Monta is better at this like I keep repeating, not just slashing ability, but slashing abiliy compareable to Tony Parker's and Derrick Rose, big time scoring. And last time I checked, it's the team that scores more points who wins the game.

    As for his defense a snippet to considert:

    He has had good games as a defender under his belt, guarding the likes of Brandon Roy, Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose. Obviously he'll be much more capable of defending a smaller guard or point guard. This answers the search for the small guard defender. Again coaching guidance will play a big part here as well as team philosophy and character.



    As fun to watch as the current team's personality on the court may be, it's easy to fall into believing that that is the only way for the Rockets to play successful basketball. Adding Monta Ellis to the team is as "out of the box" as you can get and I honestly believe it could be a good thing.
     
  9. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,904
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    Yeah, its not like Love's fg% dropped b/c of his broken hand....

    What about a bad stretch of 8 years? Ellis' career 3pt% is 31.3%, and his career fg% is 45.6%. Underwhelming at best.
     
  10. Karolik

    Karolik Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    5,405
    Likes Received:
    151
    CP3 is better than Harden hence he will handle the ball and Harden will play off the ball. Its not that hard to understand.
     
  11. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,020
    Likes Received:
    12,000
    The rockets as a team shoot the least amount of mid range shots than any team in the league. This is not coincidence. This is the game plan. You keep bringing up his mid range game as if the team would even want him shooting them, which I have to believe would not be the case.
     
  12. Beard

    Beard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ive long believed the best fit next to Harden was BY FAR Steph curry, but his recent performances are making me reconsider, maybe he should be the main man in the backcourt on his court.

    And as someone mentioned, literally the worst possible guard to put next to Harden is Monta Ellis. Couldnt believe when I saw this title. Someone asked why? Dead last in PG 3pt%:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/p.../threePointFieldGoalPct/position/point-guards

    23%!!!

    Also ball dominant.
     
  13. Lil Lee

    Lil Lee Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    6
  14. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    12,516
    Likes Received:
    305
    This is completely stupid. Did you not see the issues he had with Curry and now with Jennings? He cannot play with ballhogs. Have you ever seen him play??????????????
     
  15. jtr

    jtr Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    275
    Sounds nice in theory, but Harden without the ball in his hands is a hamstrung shooting guard.
     
  16. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,180
    Likes Received:
    281
    If your statement is true, then why hasn't the spacing of the Bucks worked. Milwaukee won because they KILLED us on jumpers while we were utterly terrible at it during that game. Furthermore, slashing ability is worthless if you can't finish at the rim ( see Williams, Terrence and that was his biggest weakness, not jumpers like most people said). Ellis is actually a worse finisher than Lin - and it should be noted that that is one area where Lin has noticeably, as he is actually BETTER at the rim compared to Linsanity. And the idea that a player entering his 9th season next year is somehow going to improve shooting or anything like that is extremely hopeful - Ellis is what he is at this point.

    You keep comparing Ellis with Tony Parker even though the two have nothing in common - one shoots lots of 3's which miss, the other doesn't. One has a history of playing within a team, the other doesn't. One is a fantastic finisher, the other isn't. So why instead, don't you compare Ellis with a more average shooting guard like say, Courtney Lee, and tell me what Ellis does that Courtney Lee couldn't do if Lee got to chuck the ball 17 times a game?
     
  17. jtr

    jtr Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    275
    It all boils down to this - every time Ellis touches the ball Harden does not. And who would you rather have touching the ball?
     
  18. gene18

    gene18 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    23
    Absolutly right. Harden and Ellis have usage percentages tha are sky high.
     
  19. MambaJoe

    MambaJoe Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    104
    As great as having a guy like Monta to pair with Harden, he isn't a good fit with Harden. Monta is more of a SG in a PG body. He's an explosive scorer who's incredibly streaky but Lin is a better option next to Harden.

    With Lin and Harden right now, they both young and are growing together. They are not trying to win today but they are building for the future. The Rockets are better off with a strong scorer and a pass first PG in Lin. With Monta, he will most likely take most of the shots away from Harden which we don't need because he's not that efficient.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now