There goes our floor spacing. Trivia: Guess who shoots worse at the free throw line this season, Asik or Smith? If you can't shoot free throws, you can't shoot wide open jumpers, period.
I understand the red flags what comes with Smith. If he wasn't a headcase, he wouldn't be in position to be traded. It is not what his perceived potential which is interesting, but his actual production in spite of his "idiocy". Also, his contract expires after this year, so I'm all for renting him as we would Paul Milsap, unless acquiring Smith excludes acquiring a Max Contract (worthy) player.
We have a dearth of shot blockers on this team, and he's a better rebounder than Patterson. More blocked shots and rebounding means more transitional offensive opportunities.
This is a fair criticism, one upon which I have tried (and continue to try) to improve. Nowadays (at least from what I'd like to think of myself), my condescension is limited only to those who provide inaccurate information (be it salary cap matters or general basketball info) as if they are certain of its accuracy, leading others seeking correct answers to make incorrect assumptions. I try hard to do my part to ensure that accurate information is disseminated among us Rockets fans and that ClutchFans.net continues to be the home of Houston's (if not the entire NBA's) most knowledgeable NBA/Rockets fans. I have little patience for those who try to detract from that. I've got no issue with those who at least let others know that they're not certain about the (incorrect) information they're disseminating. I do that myself from time to time. Please, people, just don't pass your purportedly objective points off as the gospel unless you are pretty damn certain of its accuracy. Regardless, YES, I am condescending from time to time. Sometimes that condescension is completely unwarranted. For that, I apologize. BeeBeard, maybe I've just got selective reading comprehension, but I was able to glean the above from your argument with CH. If this is true, then I'm very happy you have learned something from our discussion. While I wish it was carried out on better terms, it pleases me that you view yourself as smarter after our exchange. I'm being completely serious here. No condescension intended. See you around the BBS.
I actually joined this site to counter this. So yeah, it may be a shocker to you, but some people actually didn't want Gasol because of Memphis' failures.
Appreciate your effort to explain in polite way Bima. But some people just don't deserve your valuable time. See my sig.
Sure, I'd be up for a Josh Smith rental, as well, and Daryl Morey has possibly made a lowball offer for Smith, wherein he (Morey) isn't giving up anything of much value. But isn't it likely that somebody out there makes a non-lowball offer, or a less lowball offer than Morey's offer? Houston has, I believe, just under $7 mil in cap space. If Morey has made an offer, this is probably his offer: Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris, and expiring contracts (Cole Aldrich, Toney Douglas) to Atlanta Josh Smith and filler (Ivan Johnson, Anthony Tolliver, Jannero Pargo) to Houston This is a pretty lousy haul for Smith, if you're Atlanta. Further, it's a pretty lousy move for Houston, beyond this season, since, again, I don't see Morey wanting to re-sign Smith for Smith's asking price. Morey would be better off trading the contracts of Patterson and Morris (both of whom he likely views as fungible commodities) for a couple of draft picks, either between now and 2/21 (trade deadline) or, maybe more likely, in June/July. Draft picks are assets that can be used to either a) draft a player who Houston will keep for itself, b) draft a player (e.g., Jeremy Lamb) who Houston can trade in a quantity-for-quality deal (e.g., the James Harden trade), or c) ship off in a quantity-for-quality deal before Houston ever gets around to using the draft pick on an actual player, in an actual draft. In my opinion, two draft picks, even a couple of late first round picks, or even one late first round pick and one early second round pick, are more valuable to potential trade partners than Patterson and Morris. Since trading Patterson and/or Morris for a draft pick (or picks) has a negative impact on this season's actual basketball product, it arguably makes more sense to trade these players for picks in June/July. Although I'm not so sure that replacing Patterson and Morris in the rotation with Donatas Motiejunas and Terrence Jones (or, to be fair, Royce White) represents as much of a downgrade as you might think. Of course, as I've argued, if Smith gets traded to Phoenix for Marcin Gortat, a first round pick, and expiring contracts, and Houston swoops in and ships off Patterson, Morris, and Aldrich for Gortat, that's a different story. Gortat's a good ballplayer, represents a significant upgrade over Patterson, is very reasonably priced next season, and his contract expires at the end of next season. So Gortat makes Houston better, if they hold on to him, or he represents value to a future trade partner (say, at some point between this summer and next February) as both a player and an expiring contract. Gortat is, in my opinion, more valuable than Patterson, Morris, and $2-$3 mil in cap space.
Well Atlanta's failures isn't why I, for one, don't want Josh Smith. I don't want him because he's dumb. Really dumb. And I'm really enjoying watching a team in which mostly all of our players are capable of making the right decisions.
With all due respect, you took my Gasol example out of context, but either way, I definitely understand where you're coming from.
Questioning some points people are making. Smith thinks he is a max player (delusional) He is a FA next summer, and as a guy that wants to dictate where he ends up if he is traded before the deadline, agents will tell players to say things like that, so that he has all the leverage in the world to choose where he goes or if in fact there is a team out there willing to give him the max he still wins, so for him it is a win win situation. He would be a detriment to our offense. For every ill advised 3pt/long 2pt shot he would miss in our half-court offense, he would give you 5 free buckets off Blocks/steals, and alley oops on fast-breaks. Putting every stupid long 2pt shot blame on Smith. Look I know, he sometimes goes Kobe Bryant and takes the most difficult shots ever, but have you seen Atlantas offense for the past few years? Just "slow I will score one more point then you" kind of game, and since Johnson left they started running more, but the Half court game is hey "Smith do something" most of the time. He makes bad decisions, but he is not put in a position to succeed, his role in Atlanta is to make something happen, and because he is not exceptional offensively he will look worse then he is. Look you can be against going after Smith because of our youth, and maybe you think we would have to trade too much for him, whatever, just don´t bring these points above, they are just wrong, IMO I like to compare him to a guy like Iggy, everyone will tell you he is overpaid, spent some years on losing teams, shoots a lot of long 2pters, fact of the matter is he is a leader, a guy willing to defend the best of the best, he will take the last shot and make them a lot of times, he will just help you win buy doing everything, and in my mind you need some of that to win in this league. + Defense No need for explanation, just on another level + Relationship with Howard I am telling you right now, with how bad things are going for him in LA personally, if Josh Smith gets traded here, D12 demands a trade to Houston the next day. No homerism involved, just hard facts, Harden, Smith, D12, potential, talent plus friendship, on a good franchise, he will want to be a part of it.
We know what Danny Ferry wants for Josh Smith, or we should. Ferry wants cheap young players with perceived upside (i.e., dudes on rookie contracts), draft picks, and expiring contracts. There are only so many teams out there that will be both willing and able to put together the sort of package that he wants. Anyway, here are all of the teams that may be making the sort of offer that Ferry is interested in, and what each offer probably looks like. One of the main reasons of this exercise is to demonstrate that Houston's lowball offer, if it's even being made by Daryl Morey, isn't going to be the best offer on the table for Smith. Charlotte: Bismack Biyombo, expiring contracts (DeSagana Diop, Reggie Williams), and possibly one draft pick to Atlanta; Josh Smith and filler (Anthony Tolliver, Jannero Pargo) to Charlotte Cleveland: Tyler Zeller, expiring contracts (Luke Walton, Daniel Gibson), and possibly one draft pick to Atlanta; Smith and filler (Tolliver, Pargo) to Cleveland Dallas: Expiring contracts (Chris Kaman, Dahntay Jones, Darren Collison) and one draft pick to Atlanta; Smith and filler (Tolliver, Pargo) to Dallas Detroit: Expiring contracts (Corey Maggette, Jason Maxiell) and one draft pick to Atlanta; Smith and an expiring contract (Johan Petro) to Detroit Milwaukee: Ersan Ilyasova and an expiring contract (Samuel Dalembert) to Atlanta; Smith and filler (Tolliver) to Milwaukee Philadelphia: Evan Turner, expiring contracts (Nick Young, Dorell Wright), and possibly one draft pick to Atlanta; Smith and filler (Tolliver, Pargo) to Philadelphia Phoenix: Marcin Gortat, expiring contracts (Wesley Johnson, Sebastian Telfair), and possibly one draft pick to Atlanta; Smith and filler (Tolliver, Pargo) to Phoenix Since I don't see Daryl Morey willing to cough up a draft pick in any trade proposal for Josh Smith, and since there is surely at least one of the above teams that are willing to cough up a pick, this means that Houston will not wind up with Smith. However, note that Houston would likely be interested in the very good and reasonably priced Ilyasova and/or the very good and reasonably priced Gortat. Also note that Atlanta may prefer what Houston is peddling (e.g., Patterson and Morris, basically) over Ilyasova or Gortat. So Houston could wind up with either Ilyasova or Gortat, and Atlanta winds up with a draft pick (from either Milwaukee or Phoenix), Patterson, Morris, and expiring contracts. This would be the only way I can see Houston getting involved, realistically. Ilyasova would be awesome at that "stretch four" spot in the Rockets starting lineup, by the way. Interestingly, swapping Ilyasova for Patterson and Morris has a negligible impact on Houston's 2013-14 cap space. Ilyasova makes $7.9 mil in 2013-14, while Patterson and Morris combine to make $5.2 mil (I believe). So Houston is subtracting less than $3 mil from its projected 2013-14 cap space by swapping Patterson and Morris for Ilyasova. They'd still have a ton of cap space to play around with this summer.
I like Ilyasova's game. He brings size, toughness, rebounding, and range at the 4 position. He's nowhere near Josh Smith on the defenseive end of the floor though. Ironically he is a bit of a merge between Patterson and Morris. I think Smith is more of a game changer, but Ilyasova would not be a bad pickup
BimaThug, It's okay. We all have our pissy moments, me included. I only brought it up for full context purposes. The difference is, you're here for all of us to glom onto. You're the shark, most of us are the remoras, along for the ride. Or, as Bill Murray said in "What About Bob?" about Richard Dreyfus' character: "We're like ropes on the Goodyear blimp." Whenever we need you, we just stand in the square and yell, "DOCTOR!!! LEO!!! MARVIN!!!"
I would be very interested in Ilyasova actually. He started the season off terribly but has picked it up as of late. He's a much better fit than Josh Smith and much cheaper (although Josh is a significantly better player at this moment). I wonder how much it would cost to grab him since he's still on a cheap contract.
i'm not sure to let him kill the cap. We are a young and talented team, what we need is a veteran guy who will be here for 1 or 2 years until smith, 2pat or d-mot is a solid starter, who can also adapt to the system of rox; mid range or 3pt threat, good defensive play and good rebounding. also a role player who wont cause drama in squad. high iq is also welcomed. smith is lack of many of those and might be hard to trade if he cant blend well with squad (max. contract- age) to sum up... NO!
The Bucks are idiots if they trade this guy, at his price, but they did trade for Monta Ellis, and they also signed the terrible Drew Gooden, NBA Journeyman Extraordinaire, to an unconscionable five year, $32 mil contract two and a half years ago. Same front office. Ilyasova provides significantly more value at his price than Josh Smith will at a max or near-max contract but I'm not sure if the Bucks front office is smart enough to understand this. My guess is that if the Bucks agreed to trade Ilyasova, a first round pick, and Dalembert for Smith and filler, then Atlanta may be willing to flip Ilyasova to Houston for two of the three players: Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris, and Terrence Jones. And Houston should be and probably would be all over that. Of course, somebody else might be willing to give Atlanta even more for Ilyasova, so there's that.
