I recognize Francis is probably one of the top 15 best individual players in the game and probably one of the top 8 or so most valuable (considering his youth and skill), however I get the sinking feeling he isn't the right leader (doesn't have the right stuff to elevate his teammates) and I think the team should be built around Yao. Granted it is extremely remote such a move would be made especially now--but what would you think of a trade before the deadline for like Francis & Cato for Brand, Miller and Piatowski? Granted a usual rule is you don't trade the best player (Francis) for lesser players--but in this case I think it makes a much better fit. What it does for the Rockets. Now you have a pass first, set up man point guard, and defensive/rebounding machine at the 4 who also has good offensive skills to take advantage of some match-ups--though the team is clearly built to support Yao as the primary option (Brand's ethic and physical nature are also sorely needed for the Rockets). I understand Miller is a little bit of a risk, but even if you are left with Brand that is less than disastrous--and you know exactly what you are getting in Brand. You might also ask the Clips for an extra #1 or either Dooling or Jaric if you are that concerned about Miller immediately bolting. Still I don't think he would--it would be hard to find a much better position as a young PG to be placed on team with Yao, Brand and some other young and vet talent. What it does for the Clippers. The Clippers are a) cheap, and b) in need of a fan-grabbing dynamic player. There are not too many people that can almost single keep a team moderately competitive and entertaining--Francis is one of them. As good and steady as Brand is, offensively he just can't dominate like Francis can. Taking on Cato becomes a (relatively) cheap Kandi replacement, he is a center that works well with Francis (doesn't want the ball unless he is about to slam it) and is good defensively and rebounding. That is pretty much it. Maybe the more plausible scenario is for something like this to go down if Francis can't lead the Rockets to the playoffs--in my view this is a major test of his leadership, he has no excuse to not get Houston in the bottom half of the bracket with the arrival of Yao and relative health (except Rice) of the team with some good-to-decent players (Cat, Posey, KT before, Mo, Cato, Tmo, Mooch). Thus if the Rockets don't make it perhaps in the off-season Miller and Brand can be signed and traded for Francis & Cato (and/or Rice if need to be make the salaries work) so that Francis has the rest of the season to turn the team around and Houston has their return locked up. I just have the sense Francis will always be a greater individual player than he is a team player--that is my whole motivation for the move. I am sure I'll get some flames but this is flat out my honest option--and I have been thinking about it a while, not just after last night.
Actually, I would probably do this trade, but I am almost sure that Rudy luvs Francis too much to pull this trigger. -G'day-
We need some middle ground players than can be active and score in the paint. Sure, we have Yao. But he's not active. MoT was supposed to be that guy, but he's not consistent. Brand is that guy. But, it's a pipe dream to keep thinking we can get him. We'd have to give up Griff and Mobley. Not sure I want to give up Griff. He makes things happen and he's only 20. Most people don't think that Griff will be a dominate player, but he will. Just wait. You'll see. Anyways, we need an inside, rebounding offensive player. As it stands now, we play either on the 3-point line( shooting or dribbling), and way inside (Yao). There's no middle ground. Active inside players are like Brand, Garnette, Grant, Abdur-Rahim. Those guys are willing to do the dirty work inside and mix it up!
Francis's max contract will start next season. Why made you think that the Clippers owner wants to pay for that?
Right now, I would do a Mobley and Griffin for Brand though. Mobley would be a bargain, and Griff would still be on his rookie contract. Griff has his up-side, but Brand is already an established player at only 23. Plus he is consistent. -G'day-
Donald Sterling is NOT a fool to let this trade happen. The man might be cheap, but sure know players worth and profitability. Francis with his MAX contract ? Sterling would run like Carl Lewis before CD could even be nearer Lately, Francis value has been taking a beating with his inconsistency and inability to play PG. Not to mention his countless bonehead plays. Brand ? He can't carry his team into postseason, but his productivity & effectiveness are still there. He is also a BIG man, who's value should be higher compared to a guard ala SF. Both players are unproven products as of now ( couldn't carried their respective teams into playoff till now ), but judging from their playing tendencies, Brand value would always Top SF one IMO.
Damn people, do you REALLY think Francis is going to get traded? You need to shake yourself, because there is ZERO chance of Franics getting traded within the next couple of years...none, nada, zilch. It is just too difficult to move a player with that kind of contract with so many years left....If you don't like Francis, I suggest becoming a Mavs fan, because he's not going anywhere soon...
Agreed! Francis and Yao will be Rockets for a long time to come. Major moves are not what we need right now, instead we need to continue to make small adjustments like the Posey trade.
Actually, it would be more likely to trade Cat for Eric Snow. Then the 76ers send Iverson to the Clippers (will Sterling pay for a max player if he sells lots of tickets?) in exchange for Lamar Odom, whom they have coveted. Cat goes home, Odom gets back to the East.... Ah well. If we're gonna discuss trades that won't happen. (Although interest around the league for Iverson has been gauged, if I remember Aldridge correctly.)
No, Francis is a two time starting all star--not exactly "unproven". He is also one of the 5 or so most marketable players in the league. Further, every year except last year when he was injured his team has been better than Brand's. Brand is a very, very good overall player, but he is not near the best at his position nor ever will be (no way he gets close to the level of TD, KG, Webber, etc). You can also sign Francis for the max, and surround him with cheap defensive oriented players and win a fair number of games and put on a decent fan show for a pretty low overall payroll--the same can't be said about Brand because he can't always take his man. No, I don't think he will be traded (see below), I just think it might not be a bad idea. Why can't he be traded? Barkley, Marbury, Kidd and Webber have each been traded twice, other outstanding to great players have been traded as well, including some of the best ever (Wilt, Kareem, Hayes, Malone, etc,). I don't understand the logic or point here. I agree this is the almost assuredly our hope. I am just not that confident that this will happen before his phenomenal athletic skills start deteriorating. I would like nothing more than Francis to prove me wrong and show the on-the-court mettle and mental edge that Kidd, Payton or Stockton has--he honestly has the physical abilities to be better than any of them. But I also don't know if it is within his power to be better than them even if he tries. Perhaps no matter how hard he works he just may not be able to ever see the floor and read players a couple of steps ahead like those guys. That is what you need to be a great, team-oriented, point guard. Francis is a great player, but I just don't know if he has the stuff to lead a team to a ring.
Does anyone realize what canNOT means? His contract is UNtradable. Period. C-A-N-N-O-T!!! Live with it. Then be glad he is here. Mobley can be traded, Griffith can be traded, Rudy can be outed, but Francis canNOT be traded.
Please E-X-P-L-A-I-N, is it something in the CBO about his contract for now, what about in this off-season, next, etc. Or are you just putting you opinion that he should not be traded, or no team would take him at his contract, ever.
Everybody puts the blame on Steve, well most of the posters here anyway. Jason Kidd's first few years were much more disappointing than Steve's. The Mavs had the 3 J's (when Jackson and Mashburn were BIG scorers) and the holy grail of PGs and they couldn't win. The point is that you can have all the pieces and without time to grow together it doesn't work. Last nigh for instance the Laker's all played their roles letting Kobe take over but who made the biggest plays? Mark Madsen drew the foul (that was the spirit of Vlade by the way) and Horry hit that big 3 (not to mention Fisher played pretty good D and Fox got hot in the 3rd). These guys know their roles and know where to be and when b/c they have played to gether for yearsl. If we are still in the lower half of playoff seedings in 2 years then you might start talking about a big shakeup (ie trading Steve) but we didn't give Steve all that $ for nothing. In terms of age and success Steve might be the premier PG in the L.
I will take words from Insider Rumors (ESPN) [they refer to Szerbiak but could have been written about Francis or Baron Davis, for example]: '...trading Szczerbiak is virtually impossible. Szczerbiak, because of the extension he signed this fall, has what is called a "poison pill" contract. Basically, for trade purposes, a player's contract is averaged over the life of his deal. That means that Szczerbiak's salary would be $9.42 million for trade purposes. However, the T-Wolves could only take back the salary he makes this season, $2.93 million. That $6.49 million disparity is an almost impossible number to make up.' Steve's contract is larger and therefore even more 'poison pilled'...ok?
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I could be wrong but I think this only applies until the pill kicks in (prohibiting trades with those guys right now). However I think in 04 or 05 (not sure I couldn't find that data on real.gm) when the pill is in effect these guys could be traded like any other (matching up via salary). UTballer, the difference with Kidd (and Payton) is they needed to work on their shot to raise their effectiveness as players--but you could always tell they were mentally ahead of other players. Francis needs to work on seeing the floor better, reading how other players will react before they infact react, and keeping an efficient (some times the simply play is the best, not the spectacular), cool, head. I think it is a lot easier to improve your shot that acquire these other things. Steve should take the brunt of the blame because he is our two time starting all-star, our point guard, and our best player. He needs to learn how to lead the team to victories even if his own scoring game is off--he has not shown much ability to do this. Anyway, given the situation (he is going to be with the Rockets in the near term at least), I'll lay off and hope he becomes a better team player. But if anyone faults Yao or Mobley or EG I'll remind them right now none of them are the guy at the helm--Francis is.
