The bucks announcer said something about the ball primarily coming through the offense by harden's hands, where he said probably more than Kobe. I know that he has it a lot, but I looked on the normal stats sites and couldn't find the usage numbers., but I feel like that's no where close to true. Durvasa and any other stats people. Is usage the right metric to gauge that? Or something else? I'd like to find that stat and see if it is true. Any thoughts? Thanks!
He's probably right up there somewhere....he does go to the lin a lot and that does hide some of his attemps. What matters though is that he's pretty efficient.
Bucks announcers were homers...The Rockets played some solid defense and they were like "The Spurs were blah blah blah, but Rockets arent that good..." and they were down by 18 points with no sense of a change in the game's momentum and 4 min to go..."The Bucks have a chance to get back in this game..."
Thanks! That's the one I was looking for. He's higher than I thought... I figured he would be mid teens. He is behind Kobe though, which is what I figured
Usage Rate is probably the best estimate of what they're talking about that I can think of. Some sites don't include assists in their calculation, but I think they should.
My favorite was probably "Rockets must be shocked they're up by so much..." Those announcers were salty! :grin:
is it drummond? i am looking at this http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/offReboundRate
I think it's due to having to add up to 100% for all players. Also, if you're not shooting, you're not technically using up a possession. After all, it's the person you pass to that decides to shoot or pass again. So the usage in this sense should belong to the shooter. Without some really precise scouting of games, I think it's the best imperfect estimate. But like most stats in basketball, only tells a small portion of the tale.
I also liked it when they said something like "Foul was called on Parsons", when parsons was on the bench!
If basketball is a game of producing points through the consumption of possessions, then usage portions out possessions consumption by individual players. As mentioned, there are different approaches for computing usage. Some don't like to include assists, because there's no stat really for "assist attempts" and its arguable whether a pass really constitutes consuming a possession (unless, of course, that pass results in a turnover). Usg% at basketball-reference.com does not consider assists. Instead, it's calculated based on the percentage of "plays" a player is responsible for while he's on the floor (the number of "plays" is estimated as FGA + 0.44*FTA + TOV). So, for a 5-man group it should add up to 100%. And of course, the league average (though not median) would be 20%. Players that are considered "high usage" typically are above 25%, and the most ball dominant players may hover above 30%. Hollinger mixes in assists as well for his "USG" stat. He describes USG as number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes, pace-adjusted, which he counts as FGA + 0.44*FTA + 0.33*AST + TOV. So high assist guys will rank higher according to his USG than for basketball-reference's Usg%. Both of the above measures only considers a possession to be "used" if the player shoots the ball, commits a turnover, or maybe assists a made basket. A player who dominates the ball, eating away precious seconds on the shot clock, but doesn't do any of those things would not accumulate "usage". There are other measures people have used to try to estimate this. For example, Bob Chaikin estimates touches as FGA + FTA/(TmFTA/OppPF) + TOV + AST/0.17. The difference between this and Hollinger's USG stat is it accounts (in theory) for fouls drawn that don't result in FTA and passes that don't result in assists.
I don't really see the reason for Usage...the original one really fails to include PGs. It really achieves nothing that its name suggestst. As durvasa said, usage at B-R.com pretty much never ranks a PG in the top 10, except for the recent breed of high-scoring point guards. Notice who is missing on this list of Top 10 Usage players Per Year for the past 35 years. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/usg_pct_top_10.html Nash Kidd CP3 Stockton Isiah Thomas Magic Johnson Those guys control the ball on pretty much every possession, but none of them made the Top 10 Usage in any year, ever. In a different way, it is also quite extraordinary that Steve Francis never made the top 10. So, I'm not really sure what this stat is trying to achieve. It doesn't mean anything to me.
The "usage" percentage stat is all about who ENDS each possession. Each possession ends with either a FGA, FTA or turnover. The usage stat b-r.com is using is measuring just that, which players end their team's possession most often. The six players you listed are/were all more likely to pass before the end of the possession than guys like Kobe, MJ, Shaq etc. Usage should NOT be misconstrued as a measurement of who is a better player. If a guy doesn't rank highly in usage it really doesn't mean anything as far as how much of impact he's actually having on his team's possessions, just that he isn't ending them as often as others.
