James Harden is as good a playmaker as Jeremy Lin.

FYI.....

a Playmaker is a player who controls the flow of the team's offensive play, and is often involved in passing moves...( wikipedia )

Well for me it spells Jeremy Lin..no offense meant for Harden but I've been watching their games relentlessly..I've even have compilation of their games in my HDD..and I always notice that Harden does not direct the team as good as Jeremy is..What Harden do is to pass the ball whenever the defenses collapses on him...Harden is a scorer and he looks for his own shot above anyone else..If he can't score and the defenses collapses on him, then that's the time that he passes the ball...What good in Harden is that, he knows where to pass the ball and knows whom the open man is that's why he racks up on the assist....

Jeremy, on the other hand is reading the defenses first and create something out of it....have you seen Harden doing it?maybe sometimes but not consistently...

I'm a silent lurker here for quite a long time and was intending to be just one but seeing some responses like this are things I can't just let go..I am Jeremy's Fan and reading some peoples comment against him makes me want to defend him more....

Lots of people are labeling Harden a superstar right now but aside from being an Offensive Genius and a scoring machine I can't find anything else that makes him special...maybe if he learns how to Defend then I'll reconsider....just my opinion..

 

You are referencing an article about soccer, but the definition fits Harden. Harden definitely controls the flow of the offense and he passes often. When Lin is playing well, Harden directs the offense beautifully. When Lin isn't playing well, the defense sags off Lin and the offense is not as beautiful.

Harden scores very well and efficiently. He is a very good playmaker from the shooting guard position. He reads the defense very well and forces it to collapse on him a lot. His main weakness is defense. He still scores about 8 points more per game than he gives up so his lack of defense isn't a big issue. He generally outrebounds his man. He is a star.

The Rockets need both Harden and Lin to efficient on and off the ball. Lin is not a good enough player to give the keys of the offense to solely. Harden is not good enough against good teams to be the sole focal point of the offense.

 

don't know why we still going on about this. YES harden is better, but if u make him do too MUCH the team suffers. ENd of story lets move on

 

You dont get it, don't you?

Let me explain. I care whether Rockets win or not.
Not Harden is a superstar and being nobody on earth better than him. He is obviously a better play-maker, better scorer, better defender, even taller, more charming, more sexy with his beard than Jeremy. Fine, Jeremy still contributes a lot to the Rockets win. True?:grin:

Why always have to compare each other with tons of stat, i mean, Harden is having 250 games under his belt, probably 3 times or more the minutes of Jeremy had played. Will you compare Antony Davis to Tim Duncan and say, hey, TD is a much better rebounder? Probably you can say, yeah, who's better ATM? TD. What I am telling you is PEOPLE ARGUES for their own interests, not the team or common interests, got it? Okay, somebody wins, Harden is as good a play-maker as Jeremy, what actually the team get? More usage rate should be given to Harden? While we all see what it's look like at the first 20 games, everyone wants to see it again?

We usually argues for a point so that something can be improved or at least unclear can be clarified. I am no hypocritical guy. I get the IDEA right after reading the headline and the posts later. Just another Harden's camp vs Lin's camp again and again. Can we just have a break, and say, hey, lets enjoy the game itself than creating another argument.

Jordan, Kobe are the GOAT, but they won't mind giving the "better play-maker" title to Kidd or Magic. Because they know they are the freaking "finisher". If somebody is really annoyed who's a better play-maker in the rockets right now, just Alt-F4, go outside, take some fresh air, the answer is not here to be found. It's in your heart.

 

I think a lot of people are not taking into account the rolls that the coaches have these guys playing.

People seem to forget that Harden would play a lot of minutes at point guard last season and would do what JLin is doing now and talk like Harden can't play that way just by judging off what they see now and not taking into account what he did for OKC the previous years.

When you guys get to comparing how the offense looks when Lin has the ball compared to how it looks when Harden has the ball, it seems a lot of you are not taking play calling into consideration because Harden is a player with many talents.

You can't run a fast paced offense every minute of the game. Sometimes you have to slow down the game and eat up some clock. Since the Rockets have no true low post offensive player they can consistently dump the ball down low to, they have to run isolation plays with Harden. He is the only player that commands a double team and the only consistent scoring option on the team.

Harden's presence on the floor forces opposing defenses to gear up to stop him which opens up the court for the other players on the floor. Lin doesn't command that kind of attention, especially when he's only shooting 27 percent from the outside. And on top of that Lin is inconsistent... He does not play with the same aggressive intensity on a nightly bases _ Harden does. Some nights Lin plays like an All Star and on some nights he looks like a young player who hasn't even played an entire season in the NBA.

And on top of Harden being an offensive scoring force _ he's averaging one less assist than JLin.

Very hard to compare these two guys when you don't know how the coaches want them to play..

But Lin isn't even ranked in the top 10 amongst point guards. Can probably find 15 guys playing better and amongst shooting guards Harden is arguably the best. So really there is no comparison...

 

Harden has certainly played like a super star this far this season. He is scoring over 26 points a game (5th), passing well (the only non point guard with more is LBJ), rebounding (3rd among SG's), going to the line (2nd in NBA), steals (1st among non point guards)... All without a consistent #2 scorer and while playing 40 minutes a game, in a new system, with a new team and while starting for the first time and carrying a team for the first time.

 

Wow, that is a whole lot of verbiage there. Lots of rationalizing too. I'll put it this way, when Lin leaves, the other team comes back. Don't get me wrong, Harden is a really talented player, great scorer and all, but assists don't tell the whole story of what Lin does. I actually like Harden. Rondo has twice the assists, but Boston sux.But wait a second, doesn't assist means the player who receives the ball score, and ergo, Boston should have more points, and more points means more wins? Apparently not for Boston. I respect stats, but stats does not tell the whole story on the court. Lin controls the tempo of the game, reads the defense and chooses who to pass for the open man. Kind of like the Spurs offense, except that the Spurs do it all as one team. Lin does it by himself. Remember when Mchale and Sampson kept trying to bench Lin in the 4th and OT? Houston did NOT score 120 per game. Now that Lin has the ball more, they are scoring 120 per game. I think you guys are concentrating too much on the player with the high ppg. Melo scored 45 points today, but guess what? The knicks lost to a belo 500 team in Portland!

 

Melo scoring 45 would make him one of the best playmaker by their definition

 

Too early to tell.

 

so you win the argument, and what do you want?

Harden PG and Jlin backup?
Harden PG and Jlin SG?
Harden SG and trade Lin?
Harden SG and Doug PG/Jlin backup?

what do you want?

 

PG is an engine of the team. He control the team pace and SG is for the score.

When we missed that, the coach used Harden as a PG and Lin as a spot-shooter. our team was struggle.

I just don't get why ppl so confuse the basic team work concept and still put Harden against Lin for the PG position. The two players have different function for the team.

Not body saying Melo or Harden are not super star, but the team need to someone run offense to make the team work together that is PG's work.

If we really think we don't need PG so why we go back to the early season or trade Lin....

 

Okay let me put it this way.

Would you consider Westbrook, who averages 9 assists a game, a better playmaker than Lebron James who averages 7?

 

Lebron.

 

What is your definition of a playmaker & would Ricky fit in that definition. Ricky Rubio individually is not a scoring threat at all. His contribution offensively is in his passing. By some peoples definition Ricky Rubio wouldn't even be considered an elite playmaker (because he can't get his own shot off) even though Rubio is an elite playmaker.

 

I think Rubio is a fancy dribbler, and passing balls in between defenders legs looks great and all, but not efficient in winning basketball games, which is what Minny is.

 

If you look at my quote, you'll see that never did I once automatically equate raw assist numbers for playmaking. I was just making a subjective remark that Magic who I watched religiously since the 80's and more recently Nash are the standard bearers of playmaking in my book. Once again a subjective call. And extending from that, although I see the points everyone is making, imo Lin is the better playmaker and plays the playmaking position while scoring some, whereas Harden is the ultimate scorer and plays the scoring position while playmaking some. Clearly though, Harden is having a monster year whereas Lin has been inconsistent with flashes of promise.

In your example, 7 and 9 assists are close enough that I can use my judgment on such matters and give the clear nod to Lebron, though I have to admit, I did not watch enough of Westbrook and have had a bias against him. In similar fashion, I think I'll give the nod to Lebron over Durant as a playmaker as well, as he seems to see the court better and distribute the ball better than Durant.

Ultimately, if you like traditional PGs and are Magic Johnson/Nash/Bird fans, you'd probably like Lin to be the playmaker, and if you like Jordan best you'd probably like Harden more (not true for everyone, of course). I'm a big Magic Johnson fan and a pg through and through (a decent one, lol) so I'm partial to playmaking pgs.

 

I already wrote my definition of playmaker in an earlier post.

Long story short, a player that "makes plays" obviously. Whether it be for himself or for others.

Most of the time, playmakers don't shoot the ball because 1)they draw defensive attention, which means someone is open 2)There are 4 other teammates on the court, therefore more often than not someone other than the playmaker would be shooting the ball.

And I also don't consider Rubio an elite playmaker. Yes, he is a good playmaker because he can draw defense and get the ball to the open guy. However, to me he is more of an elite passer with terrific court vision.

Associating playmaking with simply passing would penalize a player who also has the task of scoring. Guys like Lebron James for example could easily average 10 assists a game if you were to put him in the position of PG and ask him to get open shots for others. Same for Harden, whose assist numbers would go way up if he doesn't have the task of scoring as well.

 

I think you're not giving enough credit to Rubio's ability to affect the team, though the stats may not show it. Ask Minny fans, they are believers. He's a good one and is not all about the fancy dribbles. Magic had the fanciest passes in the world but it was all good. Best basketball player I ever saw.

 

Here is the problem, the gap between Lebron and Westbrook's assist numbers are bigger than Lin and Harden's, so what makes Lin a better playmaker?

If Harden was playing PG, and his task was to find teammates as much as possible, do you not think his assists numbers would go way up as well?