Where does Asik rank amongst centers?

Throwing a fit in a Babies R Us

 

NO DISRESPECT TO MISTER COUSCOUS

-Charles Barkley

 

Miami has a top 1 SF and a top 3 SG. We're not anywhere near close.

 

In terms of player efficiency, he ranks in top 15.

He's much more effective on the defensive end than the offensive end where he's middle of the pack on scoring and assists, but his offensive rebounding makes up for some of his offensive weakness. He's also learning to set screens better.

In terms of sheer impact to the game, he's top 10.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/13/6/eff/1-1

 

I would say top 5. Or put it this way, which C would you swap for Asik, even without considering age, potential, salary, health...just look at the performance and on court impact...

Bogut???
Hortford???
Monroe???
Nene?
Lopez??? Seriously?

 

I think games when he catches it and dunks it he is a top five but the games he cant catch and tries the dream shake hes among the worst.
like last night he almost single handedly lost us the game. I think if he becomes consistent he will be top five and thank GOD we have him and Harden instead of K-mart and Bynum.

 

He is a legit top 10-15 C in this league.
To be in top 5, he has to bring up his offense ability, and soften up those hands. I like everything he does rebound, defensive, and hustle wise, but sometimes it seems like he is trying to catch some passes with a pair of bricks.
I already see major improvement in his game this year than last year with the Bulls, even announcers were stating it.
I believe he works hard, and next year after a hard offseason training on his O, I think he will be TOP 5.

 

Defense, easily top 3 along with his brother noah.
Overall, top 10, His offense drops his stock. Eventhough he can finish it strong, he still can't dunk his way over opposing bigs to the rim. When opposing bigs clutter their rim like kirilenko did in the wolves game, our offonse stucked because they know they just have to concentrate in stopping lin and harden

 

Where is Pekovic and Vucevic? You guys are anti Europeans

 

People voted for him at Top 15, 20, 25, and 30? Guess we have some AOHs. His defense alone makes him top 10 and he definitely has a legitimate argument for a place in the top 5.

 

Like I said, as of right now not considering age, salary, etc. I would put Asik about #6-9 or so. Taking age and salary into consideration, the only guys I might take over him would be Noah and Cousins. Asik at his current salary may be the best value in the league for production over dollar.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about introducing age and salary considerations here.

If we're doing that, then Andre Drummond at 19 years of age on a rookie scale contract is now a top 5 center in the league, and obviously that's not the kind of valuation we're looking for.

 

My arguments against Noah, Lopez. You can't look at stats and PER to compare them to Asik, they are deceiving. first there were number of games where where asik were pulled early because we were already winning. like the first raptor game and the second grizzlies game, asik could have inflated his numbers if had he kept playing.
second, Noah played bigger minutes than asik and other centers around 40 mpg i believe. That's what inflated his inflated his numbers
Third, Noah's stats were awful when Bulls faced above .500 games. He was feasting on mediocre teams so far.

 

He ranked around top30 in PER among centers, and his points per posession allowed ranked around #200 in the league(huge dropoff from last year). That's because he played heavy minutes and our fast pace, which inflates his per game stats and deflates his efficiency.

He's a capable starting center so far.

 

• Dwight: Having a really down year, especially on defense. He's still better than Asik but this is closer than people think. Dwight's FT shooting has been a liability too.
• Bynum: Constantly injured, I'll take Asik over him even if they were going to cost the same $$$. Bynum is not gonna stay healthy.
• M. Gasol: Asik is outperforming him in everything but offensive efficiency. I'll take Omer.
• Bogut: See also: Andrew Bynum, injury history
• Chandler: Statistically he's better than Asik, but Omer looked pretty good against him head to head...
• Hibbert: Sucks.
• Noah: About the same level as Asik honestly. Worse rebounder, but better offensive player. Similar defense. Asik outperformed him head to head
• Horford: Better offensive player than Asik, no doubt, but lacks his prowess in rebounding and defense. Similar quality player overall.
• Jefferson: Very skilled up offensive player, but his defense is HORRIBLE. I think defense is very important from the center position. Also, Jefferson is more of a PF even though they're playing him at center.
• Monroe: Production is down this year, not good enough defense, great potential for this guy though. Great offensive player. Similar quality to Asik.
• Nene: He's basically a bench player this year... usage is too low for him to exceed Asik's value yet, but he might be better moving forward.
• Lopez: Sucks. A one-dimensional scorer of mediocre efficiency who does not rebound or play defense is not better than Asik. Defense is TOO IMPORTANT at the center position.

 

Careful about using PER numbers for centers by the way. Defense is their most important role, and PER is horrible at measuring D. Centers also get tons of their shots right at the basket which jacks up efficiency numbers.

 

PER is bad for defenders who don't rack up steals/blocks.

 

Would you prefer blocked shots, steals, and DRtg, or is there another whole set of metrics you'd like to employ that makes your bullet list above look less uninformed?

 

I'm sure Morey has proprietary measures which do a good job of analyzing defense, but I don't think any of the ones in the public domain are good enough to do the job, especially for centers. Measuring center defense, especially one whose value is so dependent on his help defense, is notoriously difficult. I believe that currently, scouting is a much better way to assess the defensive quality of a center than any statistic in the public domain.