Kobe Bryant the most overrated player in NBA History?

Do you know who the finals mvp is named after? If they had that award how many would he have won?

 

That's not always a fair argument. Some former players will say things just because it's the right thing to say and to avoid unwanted publicity, or they'll go back on what they said if a big deal is made about it. Some people will only agree with former players when suits their argument, I'm not referring to you. Look at how many people bombard Shaq with criticism when he gives props to any center other than Dwight. People got on Charles Barkley's case when he said how overrated Kobe is. As soon as Barkley started praising Kobe, fans were proclaiming Barkley can't be doubted. My issue with Barkley calling Kobe a top 5 player ever, was that I think it was based on the 2010 finals without acknowledging so much that could be used against Kobe (the game 7 officiating, Artest coming through in the clutch, Gasol averaging as many assists despite Kobe dominating the ball, Kobe's shooting percentage). Fans got on Barkley when he picked Denver & Phoenix against L.A. Some older players think Bill or Wilt were the greatest ever, that doesn't mean fans don't have a right to think Michael was the best. Many General Managers take heat from people that never played. Sometimes the GM is right. Some of the better General Managers never played basketball, some of the greatest players made the worst judges of talent. Former players kept flip flopping on who was better between Lebron and Kobe just because Kobe kept advancing further in the playoffs. I knew when Lebron won his first title, those guys and the media would make it look like they never doubted him. Steve Smith laughed when Rick Kamala said Kobe was overrated on defense, there's so much proof that Rick was right. Other analysts spent years saying Kobe was the best perimeter defender, most complete, and one of the most complete ever.

I don't judge mainly by titles so Kobe deserves to be rated higher for reaching 30'000 points and whatever other individual accomplishments he achieves in the future. I doubt anyone is downplaying what Kobe did, people are just putting things in a more unbiased perspective, unlike ESPN and certain ones on NBA TV. Sometimes I wonder if they are that biased. I couldn't believe some of the stuff I heard this morning. Steven A Smith referring to Kobe as a 5 time world champion nearly every time he addresses him is an example that rings don't always tell the story. IMO, Kobe still isn't a top 10 player. Shaq isn't, Hakeem is, I still have both ahead of Kobe.

More than anyone else in the league, Kobe taking the last shot makes me hold my breath. It's rarely acknowledged how many times he's gotten blown out, lost a series when his team shouldn't have, shot a bad percentage, had low assisting numbers throughout the playoffs, got roasted on the perimeter after Derek Fisher was gone. It was held against Dirk & Lebron when they beat certain teams, it wasn't held against the Lakers for beating teams that were depleted or that overachieved. His playoff misfortunes do get glossed over aside from his losses against Utah in the late 90s. They mention how Kobe carried the offensive load throughout his career, they don't mention how he didn't have to most of the time. For all of his scoring feats, it's never mentioned how much went in his favor (how many more games he played, the things in his favor when he scored over 60 on Dallas, playoff series extended, his shooting percentage and missed shots). Kobe deserves credit for all this, it's not fair to exclude other factors.

Props to him for being efficient early last season and this season. After his MVP seasons, Steve Nash didn't get enough credit for still being efficient despite not having the advantages of Lebron and Kobe. One of the best things about Kobe is how durable he is. Others like Pierce, Duncan and KG had their numbers decrease in recent years, but they've sacrificed shots, touches and minutes. He's still one of the best players in the NBA, I'm just saying how Kobe is one of few still getting credit for playing at a high level when cases could be made for others.

 

greatest legacy: Kareem (Most championships, but not everything accomplished in LAL)

greatest icon: Magic (dynamic, Showtime, Boston rivalry, pre-Jordan NBA popularity revival)

greatest Laker: Jerry West (for his contributions as player AND GM)

greatest player: Kobe (Stats, milestones, second-to-MJ offensive skills)

Fair?

 

It is far from ridiculous. Everything Kobe has done was done as a Laker. Only magic and Jerry can say the same from your list. It is far from ridiculous to think he has accomplished more as a laker than those two.

 

Hey guys, this player I don't like for [reasons] who is inarguably one of the greatest players of all time, can't possibly be great after all if I don't like him! Unghhh my precious opinions are enough to define a man's legacy! :grin:

 

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Listen to the guy who called Kobe "overrated" response to Kobe reaching 30,000 points. SMH

 

You literally cannot be overrated when you have 5 rings and have been a top 2 player on each of those teams

 

Sure you can, when some folks want to say you are just as good as a guy with 6 rings that was the top player on all of those teams. Or that you are the best in your era when two other guys from it were also the top player on more title teams than you.

 

Maybe ridiculous was a bit of a hyperbole, but just because the others didn't get all their accomplishments as a laker doesn't automatically mean they were worse lakers than Kobe. For example KAJ won 3 Mvps as a Laker, 5 Championships, 12 all-star appearances etc. etc.

I think KAJ accomplished more as a laker than Kobe, personally.

That being said I think Kobe is a great player, a HOFer etc. but he's not better than other laker greats, and because people seem to think he is suggests, to me, that he's overrated.

 

I could only get through the first 2 minutes.

But, does this guy really admit that Kobe is a top 15 all time player then go on a 15 minute rant on how overrated he is?

I just don't think it's worth discussing how he stacks up against the other 14 as much as others do. I think that we should just agree that these legendary wings (Dr.J, Bird, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron) are all different but also all great, the same way we do with the centers (Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Kareem, Olajuwon).

 

Minus the MVP awards Kobe did everything and more in other areas than Kareem did as a Laker. He has more finals MVPs and more all star appearances. Strictly looking at their stats as Lakers you can't say Kareem had the clearly better career unless you have some Kobe bias. He is not overrated you just aren't paying attention to how much he has accomplished as a Laker.

 

Yeah, let's ignore those MVP awards and focus on All Star games instead!! Lol

 

Convient that you left out the finals mvp part. Kobe was the clear alpha on two of his five rings. Kareem only won one finals mvp out of the 5 and wasn't even the second best player on the team for rings 4 and 5. I get you like to down play Kobe but his career as a Laker is on par with Kareem's.

 

Trying to quantify greatness using league accolades handed out by coaches like the great Randy Whitman and sportswriters like the ineffable Mark Kiszla is sort of dubious idea to begin with.

 

*Convenient

 

But Kareem was the best player on the team for as many titles as Kobe was the best player on his team. And he was voted the best player in the league more. You may want to stop ignoring MVP results and see who was finishing higher in that category for LA in the early 80s. Winning a Finals MVP isn't a dead giveaway that you are the best player on the team. If so Worthy, Dumars and Parker wouldn't have one.

 

How about 4 of the 5 guys on that list having played for the Lakers. 3 of which played there for significant time.

 

I agree with that, and I've said in previous threads that I would take MJ over many of those all-time great centers, though not very easily, but I wouldn't take Kobe over any of those centers in their primes (Shaq, Wilt, or Kareem) and even throw in Malone and Olajuwon. I don't think his overall production and effectiveness through efficiency could overshadow that of a great big man on evenly matched team.

 

How am I ignoring MVP results? If I don't put as much importance on them as you then I am just ignoring them? Maybe you want to make better use of your words. Also, maybe you should go look at MVP stats for the early 80s. After Magic's second year (80-81) Kareem never finished above him in MVP voting.

So going off how much weight you put on MVP awards it would seem like Kareem was only the best player on one of the 5 championship teams. And as I mentioned earlier he wasn't even second best on the last two. That gives him one alpha, two sidekicks, and two side sidekicks. Kobe's 2 alphas and 3 sidekicks make him a bigger impact on Lakers championship teams.

As far as finals mvp goes, I never said they determined if you are the best player on your team. However, they are still a big accomplishment as a member of a team and can't be overlooked. The actual league MVP often isn't the best player in the league but it still holds weight.

There is also a list of other accomplishments like points, all star appearances, all nba first team, scoring championships etc. that Kobe outshines Kareem at in a Lakers jersey. Kareem had the overall better career but as far as what they did as Lakers it's close and for people to say that Kobe shouldn't even be in the discussion is ridiculous and hate.

 

Not a huge Kobe fan, but I think Kobe only winning one MVP is a travesty.