Mandela throws out the race card, site erroneous fact

pippendagimp,
thanks. But, uh, that's a lot for us to read! Could you, say, take out the three most inflamatory quotes for us? Then we can run a feature story about it on our website. Thanks buddy.

Sincerely,
CNN

 

This seems tough: I keep asking you to put yourself in someone else's mindset -- especially someone outside the US.

In short, I meant Iraq. And yes, we're discussing the same thing. Outside of oil, some could argue Iraq doesn't have much going for it. Not many raw materials, sanctions that have rendered them virtually unable to rebuild their military after Gulf War #1, a ruthless dictator who, by ruling a decimated people, has not generated the loyalty, energy, and/or fanaticism needed to make this starving nation a threat. Reasonable people believe this. Sorry.

Put yourself in the shoes of an average run-of-the-mill tiny nation, perhaps (gasp!) non-democratic. Who are you afraid of if you somehow make another nation angry and get labeled "evil" by them. Iraq? Or the US of A?

I'm not saying there's a right answer or a wrong one. I'm saying it's a legitimate question to ask. If you think I'm crazy, fine then. This is my last post here unless you ask me another question (even a rhetorical one, careful... )

 

Wasn't GW a terrorist criminal? I mean George Washington?

 

I know damn well that you're crazy...but not because of your post here...

 

Wow i am speechless. This is definitely the most inane post i have ever read on this BBS. For your information you bloody idiot:-

Mandella should be grateful that he did not die in prison...thanks to the good ole...hated US of A.

* Cheney Voted against Resolution Calling for Nelson Mandela's Freedom. In 1986, Cheney voted against a resolution expressing the sense of the House that the President should urge the South African government to engage in political negotiations with the country's black majority, grant immediate and unconditional release to Nelson Mandela and other political prisoners, and recognize the African National Congress (ANC) as a legitimate representative for the black majority. Motion rejected 245-177. [1986 CQ Almanac, p. 86-H, vote #304]

http://www.politicsandelections.com/usa/butts/gorejul31.htm


A good article from The Guardian on September 19, 2002 where Mandela pretty much said the same thing about the war and the UN.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,794757,00.html

and as Glynch pointed out:

When he displayed a lack of personal malice, they saw an abundance of political meekness. There is an implicit racism in this that goes beyond Mandela to the way in which the west would like black leaders to behave. After slavery and colonialism, comes the desire to draw a line under the past and a veil over its legacy. So long as they are preaching non-violence in the face of aggression, or racial unity where there has been division, then everyone is happy. But as soon as they step out of that comfort zone, the descent from saint to sinner is a rapid one. The price for a black leader's entry to the international statesman's hall of fame is not just the sum of their good works but either death or half of their adult life behind bars.

In order to be deserving of accolades, history must first be rewritten to deprive them of their militancy. Take Martin Luther King, canonised after his death by the liberal establishment but vilified in his last years for making a stand against America's role in Vietnam. One of his aides, Andrew Young, recalled: "This man who had been respected worldwide as a Nobel Prize winner suddenly applied his non-violence ethic and practice to the realm of foreign policy. And no, people said, it's all right for black people to be non-violent when they're dealing with white people, but white people don't need to be non-violent when they're dealing with brown people."

 

DaDakota, thanks for representing the inane poop for brains American stereotype you moron.

Right here Taliban! If you want to raise recruitment, just quote the words of the spiritually corrupt w**** known as DaDakota. As you can see, we prize nothing but power. We also love for our cute little Africans to be gracious to us when we belatedly honor their rights (damn those liberals and their soft drink alternatives).

 

the truth is in the middle

 

Mandela is speaking the truth.

 

From Pippen's link.

Quoting Nelson's own words....

"Having said this, I must deal immediately and at some length with the question of violence. Some of the things so far told to the Court are true and some are untrue. I do not, however, deny that I planned sabotage. I did not plan it in a spirit of recklessness, nor because I have any love of violence. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation that had arisen after many years of tyranny, exploitation, and oppression of my people by the Whites.

I admit immediately that I was one of the persons who helped to form Umkhonto we Sizwe, and that I played a prominent role in its affairs until I was arrested in August 1962"


He was a terrorist, or at least was considered one at one time.

Granted that word has a much harsher meaning today then it did in 1962, but he admits to committing violence to make his point.

I don't think it is appropriate for anyone to use violence as a means of being heard or effecting change.

I may have been a bit harsh to make a point, but I am getting very tired of all the people that the USA has helped at one time or another coming back and whining about this or that.

What happened to gratitude? The rest of the world's views need to be taken into consideration, no doubt. but it is a crying shame that we supply most of the aid to countries around the world, and all we end up hearing is that it is not enough.

Guess I am a little cranky...these days.

DD

PS. I would tell HP to piss off, but he can't see it anyway.

 

Thanks for showing how classy you are by name calling and not attacking what was said.

DD

 

HP, if you can't handle debate, your answer is to run and put someone on the ignore list.....you wuss !!

DD

 

Sorry for the double post.....

No offense meant to anyone about Mandela, if he is your hero..more power to you.


DD

 

They do not care. Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man?" said Mandela, referring to Kofi Annan, who is from Ghana.

This statement does bother me a little bit. I think that the problem is not that Kofi Annan is black, per se but that he is from a poor country and the Bush types are afraid he won't agree to always run the UN mainly for the benefit of the wealtheir countries.

As we are seeing now the conservatives in the US will turn on the UN, old allies Germany or France or anyone who disagrees with them.

In addition these folks often have problems with the whole idea of the UN, as it is a force that could go against their belief that the US should be not constrained by world opinion. Much of this hate would apply to a white guy from Britain UN Secretary,who crossed the US which they believe is always entitled to do what it wants as it is always correct.

I must admit that their utter contempt for world opinion outside their own US centric thinking is so irrational that it makes you wonder if this dismissal of the rest of the world is perhaps racist. I would say, however, that most of their hatred for the UN SECRETARY is due to his office with some more due to poor country he is from and relatively due to his skin color.

 

Our racist jackass of a President just offered billions of dollars to assist in helping the AIDS epidemic in South Africa. He really must hate blacks!! If Mandela believes half of what he said, he is an idiot.

 

It's Mandela

 

DaDakota, what is there to say? I grew up in a country that honors our terrorists. Washington, Sam Adams, the Swamp Fox, etc. etc.

terrorist has such a political connotation. I think the word is silly, myself. Wars are about philosophies and culture. Are your rights being oppressed? Are you paying taxes to some random monarchy? Are you getting your ****ing head kicked in by a colonialist power. Is your wife being eviscerated in front of you? Was she raped too? What should you do? Maybe sit around on the sidewalk? Is the media about?

Clutch, that comment is strange, I agree. I think Cohen hit the nail on the head, however. The most powerful nation in the world, an entity that sat on its hands for a long time while Nelson Mandela rotted in prison has put in power a man who at one point immediately stood in his path to freedom... in Dick Cheney. That would probably raise the old man's ire a bit.

Besides, he's 84. Grandpas have a history of letting it 'flow' at some point.

 

Achebe,

I concede the point.

I was not there, I am not sure I would have acted any differently.

However, when he accuses the US of being racist, I think he has lost his marbles.

Also, whether we like it or not, he IS a convicted terrorist.

Of course, you correctly pointed out that can have more then one meaning.

Today it means a lot more then it did in 1961.

DD

 

I believe you hit the nail on the head.

 

The UN Secretary Generals over the past 20 years have been from Peru, Egypt and now Ghana. You would classify Peru and/or Egypt amongst the wealthier countries in the world?

Javier Perez de Cuellar and/or Boutros-Ghali ran the UN for the benefit of the wealthier countries?