I agree, Jordan was without a doubt the best player ever. But I would say for that that 2 or 3 year period that Dream played better than anybody I have ever seen play the game. The reason being because he could completely dominate and both the offensive and defensive ends of the court.
I think the rebounding numbers would probably be affected the most. I'm just guessing here. The point was I just don't think per game stats are the best way to compare the two players. I agree with those who say Hakeem was in God mode for 3 years, and for that time period he was probably top 2 or 3 all-time. Prior to that he just wasn't that smart offensively. It's not like he suddenly got great players around him - he just learned to trust them more and became a better teammate. There wasn't much difference in personnel b/t the lotto season of '91-92 and the championship team of '93-94. I'd say Duncan was much more coachable than Hakeem. Hakeem would never take on a lesser role. I suppose that mentality is partly what made him so great in his prime, but it also hurts him when comparing careers with other players (like Duncan). In the end the 4 championships are going to elevate Duncan above Hakeem in the eyes of most. I don't think Duncan's teams were ever loaded either. His '03 title team took down a Shaq/Kobe team that had won the previous 3 titles - Parker and Manu were not that great at that point.
Even though, I adamantly think Olajuwon is better than Duncan. TD will probably be seen as a greater player among the general populace, when it's said and done. People tend to put alot of emphasis on titles, especially when it comes to players who aren't in the public's immediate conscious.
When it comes to winning, he has accomplished more than Olajuwon and he wasn't necessarily chopped liver. He elevated the Spurs probably more than any other player in their history and was outstandingly clutch -- hitting big shots, being a reliable free throw shooter, not giving up easy buckets down the stretch, and taking the other team's best post players out of the game (defensively).
If being right is the same thing as being a homer then I'm a homer. The answer is Dream and it's really not that close.
The better player was Olajuwon. He was a better defender - got more steals and blocks, was harder to score on. He had a lot more offensive moves and a far more dynamic game. And he often commanded triple teams, something Duncan never was able to do. Duncan was a very very slightly better passer. But Olajuwon was a bit better of a rebounder. They both were about the same in terms of efficiency, Olajuwon took more jumpers though and that is remarkable that he hit at a higher clip overall than Duncan. Statistically, Olajuwon was the better player across the board. His best seasons Dominated Duncan's best. That said, Duncan had more rings. It should be noted that Olajuwon only had 4 or 5 years of a championship team, and he nearly won in 86'. Duncan was surrounded by some awesome players - David Robinson to start, and currently Parker/Ginobali. Hakeem has Ralph Sampson to start for one season. And his best side kick was Clyde Drexler for a couple of years before they all started getting really old. I'd take Olajuwon on my team, but Duncan has the most accomplish career. It all depends on how you define better. If you are talking about the guy with the most talent and ability to do basketball things, than it's clearly Olajuwon. If you are talking rings - than I guess it's Duncan.
Tim has been an incredible player and everything you would want in a PF for years and years......BUT.....it's not even close.
Bob Pettit anyone? I spent a couple years in Saint Louis, and one friend of mine was a researcher who was old enough to have seen the Saint Louis Hawks play, and in his opinion, Bob Pettit was the best player he'd ever seen in the flesh. Check out the numbers .. yes, Elvin Hayes is also in this discussion, and please tell me once again how Tim Duncan is a runaway for the best PF of all time. This reminds me way too much of the threads where Kobe Bryant is the second best NBA player of all time (behind Jordan, and ahead of Shaq). D-
Its close but Hakeem for sure. Both are top 10 players all time though and both were great enough to almost singlehandledly win championships.
Most educated nba fans know that Kobe is bottom end top 10. Also no way in heck are Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit even close to the best PFs. They were great in their respective eras but they probably don't even beat Dirk, KG, Malone and Barkley on the all time list(Elvin Hayes definitely doesn't). Playing in an extremely weak era doesn't make you the best PF(Bob Pettit). Elvin Hayes does not even come into the discussion. You think his stats are good? They really aren't that great if you take into consideration the era. He never had a PER of greater than 20. Yes PER is flawed but I take that over raw stats any day since it is a stat that actually works across eras and it makes a comparison with the league average. The game was totally different back then. The pace was faster so there was a lot more scoring and there were many more rebounds to be had. This is why TRB%>>TRBs and why raw stats aren't everything. For example even Wilt would not ever average 20 rebounds today. He had 25+ rebounds in his era since there were far more rebounds to be had per game than today. If you take into consideration his TRB% he would average around 14-17 rebs today at his peak. At most 17 even in this weak center era. Also Elvin Hayes doesn't even come close in terms of accolades, playoff success, etc. No FMVPs, no MVPs, far fewer all defensive teams and all nba teams than Duncan. Its not even remotely close.
You can say Hakeem was better player, but Duncan is clearly greater. Best passing big, better rebounder than Hakeem, better leader.
I refer you to post #72 in this thread. Duncan is not a better rebounder and leaders don't miss lots of free throws in crunch time during the finals.
my exact first impression.:grin: although at my most objective, Dream by a mile. just a more complete package.
Gentlemen (and women), roll the David Robinson Dream Shake footage... Hakeem played in the era of great centers. Ever seen one HOF player simply abuse other HOF players? Even Michael Jordan, the most narcissistic even picked Hakeem as the center he'd want.
Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Shaquille O'Neal Hakeem Olajuwon vs. David Robinson Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Patrick Ewing Hard to say that Hakeem abused other HOF centers.
They play different positions so this doesn't work. Tim Duncan is hands down the best PF of all time. He played a long time and got more rings then Hakeem, but his team was also stacked. Hakeem in my opinion was the best center of all time, as he led the league in all time blocks and is 8th in all time steal and 11th in all time boards. The only competition people say he has for that title is Kareem. He won finals mvp and won defensive player of the year in the same year. Only other player to do so is Michael Jordan. Hakeem also made post moves that players use today. I dont know who is better, but I definitely would choose Hakeem to be on my team.
