Who will end up with a better career Nowitzki or Lebron ??

Why is kobe compared to mj? rings

If u want to put a choker in the finals over dirk thats all you

LOL malone over dirk ?

 

obviously rings matter, but your entire career matters too. are you putting dirk ahead of karl malone and charles barkley who have no rings? i wouldn't.

at the rate lebron is going, he'll go down as a top 20-25 player without winning a ring. the ring(s) are important to him if he wants to mention as a top 5 player of all time.

lebron is compared with jordan too you know before he won any rings? comparisons are made all the time. kobe is very similar to jordan in their killer instinct/work ethic/scoring ability/playing style... also helps that they had the same coach who led them during their primes. and rings will further those comparisons.

malone IS better than dirk in the all-time lists. are you putting kevin garnett over malone and barkley because of one ring also?

 

correct, Clyde is not a top 10 ever, neither is malone or Barkely

YOU HAVE TO CLEARLY BE THE GUY

 

he is not number 2 yet. he still has another 3 prime years left, and then some other years. He could easily end up #2

 

That statement is based on the way u feel about lebron and thats all!
To say that lebron isnt very talented is one of the most ignorant things anyone could say!!
Its his talent that gets him by because, as we have seen, he struggles with the mental part.
All these lebron haters/dirk worshipers are ONLY looking at the finals to judge each player! Dirk got hot and played AMAZING in the playoffs... Lebron played bad in the finals... Its that simple, this whole thing has been over-analized... All this nonsense about him being possibly the best PF ever is just ridicules! He is nowhere near Barkley, Malone, McCale, or Duncan!
You have to look at an entire career... not just one playoff performance!

 

The ring is why they play to be a champion the TRUE greats get it

and malone isnt better then dirk or he'd have a ring and dirks career isnt

even close to being over its not like he's retired still has some good years

ahead of him. If its all about stats why did malone go to the lakers? Lebrick to

miami?

 

players play to win the rings obviously; you're right about that. but not every player can win a ring b/c winning a championship requires multiple factors and some luck.

you judge a player's career and rank them by their performance. you can't deny that charles barkley was out of his mind in 93, even in the finals. the guy put up 27, 14, 4 for god sakes (that playoff run was better than dirk's). but he didn't win b/c he went against michael jordan. that's just bad luck to go against MJ.

and barkley's playoffs averages are better than dirk. and barkley's career #s are better than dirk's.

you have to judge their entire resume, not just by the final product of winning a ring. you have to judge how dominant they were in their ENTIRE career in the reg season AND playoffs.

you should use rings primarily when 2 players are so similar in their resumes to break the tie.

for instance, is kevin garnett better than karl malone for their careers? how about paul pierce over lebron james RIGHT NOW? or dwayne wade over kar malone? and i can name a few more.

rings do matter, but what players do in their careers matter too. say what charles barkley did in 92-93 was more dominant than what dirk did in, but dirk won the ring.

 

Just because LeBron is an arrogant turd and had a bad finals doesn't mean he won't end up having a great career. He is an amazing talent. If he gets his head together and stays healthy he will be holding trophies.

 

Fair enough

but i feel a lot of people here knock on dirk just because he plays for dallas

and that isnt fair just as great players who didnt win a ring. At one point a

ring is more than say more points and rebounds another player had without a

ring say dirk wins 1 or 2 more rings wouldnt he be number 2 pf after that?

 

I can't believe Dirk has this many votes. Yes, he's a great player but it's clear that overall LeBron is a BETTER player.
Who has had the better career right now if they both stop playing? Probably Dirk. Who has the better career at the end of the line? LeBron. Stats dont lie. Second highest PER in history behind Jordan. Didn't Dirk shoot something terrible like 30%-35% for the Game 6? I don't think we are giving his supporting cast enough credit. LeBron was fairly efficient the last game, but our expectations of him are so high that they are hard to live up to. It's clear he didn't have a great series, but that is by the standard he created for himself.

 

i don't think so. a lot of people have given dirk a ton of props and deservedly so.

if dirk wins another ring or 2, that means he would have another great playoff run or 2 (along with another great reg seasno or 2). so if he can do that, of course, he can elevate himself even more. and if he can do it like he did this past playoff run where he was pretty historic for the most part in terms of efficiency and clutchness, no doubt.

 

Right now Dirk's career accolades are impressive, but can you say with a straight face that you think leBron's only going to win ONE finals MVP & NBA Championship? Truth is LeBron's still got the greatest upside in the NBA, the greatest marketability (jersey sales), & is acknowledged as the best by the best in the game & in history. Get used to it, or get out.

 

productivity>efficiency

LBJ's +/- the last game was -24

 

Strong username to post content

 

not sure if srs i can count maybe 6 or 7 posters who gave dirk his props

and then a couple more showed up AFTER he won the champioship.

 

you should read the threads in the lakers/thunder series. a lot of people acknowledged his clutchness and historic efficiency. the guy was out of his mind in those 2 series.

he only shot 41% in the finals so he didn't play out of his mind like he did in the previous 2 rounds, but he was still mad clutch.

i saw a lot of people who gave him props.

 

I vote for LeBron. Breaking it down into key categories it works out like this:

Rings

Dirk has 1. LBJ has 0. However, the due to Dirk's age and the team that surrounds him we can estimate that the most he could win is 4 rings total over the course of the rest of his career. This is a highly optimistic estimate but it is just concerning age and years in league. it also doesn't differentiate Dirk wins via main guy or 2nd or 3rd player down the road.

LBJ has the potential to win more rings. Right now, Dirk wins but going forward you would consider the probability of LBJ winning more than 2 rings higher than Dirk's.

Scoring

Although LBJ has purposely limited his scoring numbers (by joining Wade and Bosh), he should end up around or surpassing Dirk's total scoring points. Not a big category but people like to include it when viewing career aspects.

MVPs

James has edge in regular season. Dirk has one Finals MVP. I think it is safe to assume that Dirk has a low chance of winning another regular season MVP while James has a better chance of winning a Finals MVP.

Overall Game

Dirk will go down as the best European player ever. One of the greatest big men ever. One of the best offensive players ever. LBJ his simply better overall in terms of scoring, passing, rebounding (For his position) and defense. Again, LBJ purposely puts a limit on his numbers. While his numbers in Miami are as good as they were in Cleveland, you never know how they swing in the upcoming years and whether he stays with Miami or not. James may not be as good as Dirk on the offensive side but he is better in rebounding (Again relative to position) and passing. Plus there is the added element of LBJ being recognized as playing great Defense while that tends to be Dirk's low point in his game.

Other awards

Covering this as light as possible, many of these things depends on # of years in league and competition with the positions they play. I'll ignore All Star games. All NBA is interesting because LBJ is usually considered the best SF while Dirk was rarely considered that (Due to him playing in the era with Duncan/KG). And even when he is, he ends up in the second team (this years).

The one key element is All Defense. I won't tackle total appearances since we can't estimate how voters handle it in the future plus, when a star is in his later years they tend to just vote a player for the sake of giving him a due (Kobe this year). However, even with overlooking the # of All defense, you can look at the fact that James was voted at least once All Defense. Dirk has never been voted.

PER

James has the higher career PER and more #1 year end finishes. Career can fluctuate depending how LeBron handles his later years.

Perceptions and Performances

How a player steps up during the playoffs is considered an added weight to his career. If someone chokes or is 50/50 during the moments his team needs him, we tend to give that person a value based on our expectations and what that player should be doing.

This year Dirk's stock rose in terms of playoff performances. For many he erased the past failures even though stat wise there isn't a big gap between his failure years and his success years (Overall playoffs). The fact that Dirk scored in the 4th quarter repeatedly to lead his team to win in the Finals is just an added weight. It is an alternate viewpoint to Karl Malone who many consider someone who could not step up in the clutch in the Finals.

Now we have LBJ who has practically crapped his bed during the Finals. Whatever he did to get to the Finals is being ignored. Is it right? Maybe, maybe not. James played key roles when playing Chicago and Boston but the fact that he vanished in the Finals, the most important and scrutinized series just lays heavy on him. Our perception of his clutch performances and value in those situations is at an all time low.

For example, if Dirk wins another ring, plays just like these playoffs, he basically goes up another notch in the greatest player totem pole. Even if he doesn't win the ring but plays out of his mind, he still moves because many would think "he tried his best".

Right now, a part of James career perception hinges on how he performs the next time he is at this stage. If James can succeed once. Destroy a team in the Finals then he'll wash away all the negative vibes from the past just like how Dirk did this year. If James ends up repeatedly in this situation and ends up faltering, not failing, then it hurts his image.

History is not kind to chokers or players who end up squandering the moment. People are not forgetting how James played against Boston last year and how he played in these Finals this year unless LBJ himself can erase it from our collective memory with an outstanding performance.

There is still time though on that aspect. James can wash away all that stuff and just have it as a plus for his career. End up as a player who failed twice but managed to finally slay the dragon by work and determination.


Final Random thoughts

I'm going with LeBron's. It is ultimately difficult to compare with some who is almost past their prime (Dirk) vs someone who should be entering theirs (LBJ). LeBron has the higher upside and potential to gather more awards, rings, overall stats and erase any negative vibes. Unless Dirk starts a dynasty right now and wins 3 more rings in a row and outplaying everyone in the playoffs, I can't pick him. However, you may never know.

I apologize for this long winded reply. I went off tangent like mid-way and said 'Screw it, might as well finish it'. Thanks for reading, even if it made no sense.

 

No matter what Lebron does, he will never achieve the threat of a 7ft with Dirk's game. You put Dirk on just about any team in this league with just better than average guys and they could win a title playing off of him. You can't say the same about Lebron and that's proven.

 

Regardless, I'd take Dirk over Lebron any day. Dirk has one thing Lebron doesn't, and that's heart.

 

The only reason why the Mavericks won were from the hot shooting of Dallas' role players. It was raining threes and Miami couldn't counter because they had no three point threats.

Say what you want, Dirk is a HOFer... but the whole "Greatest post player ever" thing is getting a little old. Hakeem with one leg can destroy Nowitzki. All day, everyday.