I don't. The Rockets have Patrick Patterson, who is simply a better player. They also have their "project" big man in Thabeet. Morey WENT AFTER each of those guys. Hill was little more than a throw-in in the McGrady trade, IMO. I even said as much at the time. If Morey thinks he can use Hill to get a player/asset who can help this team more, he'll do it.
Good points all. Not saying that the Rockets' shouldn't look into Jefferson. Just showing my apprehension, is all. A trade like that would certainly show fans that they are committed to making the playoffs next season. Of course, it may also piss off a lot of the "we need to bottom out and get a star in the draft" folks around here.
I think the "tankers" are already pissed off. As for apprehension, I think it's entirely reasonable to have it-- but this is precisely why he might actually be available. If we don't have these apprehension, Al Jefferson would be one of those untouchable Dwight Howard types.
I am one of the people who think taking on a big risk, like potentially "overpaying" to move up in the draft, is the easiest way to get out of mediocrity. Either hitting the jackpot or "bottoming out". With that said, I don't have the audacity to think I would know better than the actual guys in charge, like most around here seem to imagine themselves. If we do trade for someone like Jefferson, and show a commitment to winning now, even if it means falling short of the ultimate goal, I'm sure they will have their reasons. The very first thing I'd do would be trying to see things from their perspective, before being pissed off that they didn't do what CXbby said. Can't say the same for all the other so called "tankers" edit: or "anti-tankers"/edit though...
I think we should go after Iggy and Spencer Hawes with Martin, Hill, and possibly a pick. Iggy fills the void at SF and we can draft Marshon Brooks for more depth at SG. Hawes isn't better than Hayes, but he could be in the future....certainly better than any center within range in the draft.
Thabeet is not a project big, he is an expiring contract only. Will be out of the league in a year. Patterson/hill are their projects.
Morey: I don't know how serious you'll get this knowing my origin, specially having already shown some love for other europeans of this draft, but I really like Bertans and I think he can be something special. People know that he's a 6-10 guy who can shoot it, but he's actually more than a shooter, he can score over dribble, put the ball on the floor, rebound, dunk it... He has a Kevin Durant game. No doubt that I would pick him at the 2nd round; what I'm weighing is if I would do it with the 23rd pick. I let you a video of the last U18 Euro. He's 17 years old here: <iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4XHssDGOq38?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
What about a trade like this for that #4 pick? http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3psvjjh Cleveland gets: Scola Bud T-Will Miller TE for Graham and Eyenga #23 Houston gets: Jamison Joey Graham Eyenga #4 They get back a pick and get rid of Jamisons contract. I know it's not the best of trades, but i'm bored.
Gotta call BS on this, larsv8. Shane was the expiring contract THIS season. The Rockets will end up paying a few million bucks more just to have Thabeet and a lottery-protected first rounder that can't be conveyed any earlier than 2013 (and might end up being no more than a 2016 second rounder and cash if the Grizzlies don't make the playoffs from 2013-16). By point of comparison the Rockets could have just BOUGHT a better pick for that money. And don't give me the line about the Rockets wanting to pay for more contracts expiring in 2012 for trade purposes. I don't buy it. They've got plenty of those (Miller, Hill, Williams) already. The only rational explanation for the Thabeet trade was that the Rockets had at least SOME interest in Hasheem as a player. Sure, he's a project and may be out of the league sooner rather than later. But he's the Rockets' project, and they wanted that project.
They can keep Eyenga or Graham or whoever..all I care is getting rid of Scola and getting that pick. We can pick Kanter with that pick, or at least a great project big. But I feel you will get flamed for this trade though. Because most people on here don't want to start rebuilding.
Thabeet can't even get playing time in d league. Hill and Williams are both prospects, they would never be moved as an "expiring" contract. Their salaries are low anyway. Miller is this years battier, and Thabeet is this years jeffries. IMHO. I see those trades as a favor to the grizzlies and as a favor to shane.
Favors don't cost this much. Paying Thabeet $5.2M this season is not something the Rockets would be willing to do just so that Shane could MAYBE make the playoffs as an 8 seed, no matter how much they think he deserved it. That explanation makes very little sense, dude. Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your evaluation of Thabeet as a player. I think he has surprised and disappointed the Rockets by just how bad he actually is right now. But I stand by my (much more rational than your) explanation that the Rockets did want to acquire Thabeet as an actual project big man to develop. Continue to believe whatever you want, man. Just know that you're wrong.
It makes perfect sense. Morey and Heisley are buddies and are always trading back and forth. Friends help each other out. And just because it was a favor (to both the Grizzlies AND Shane), doesn't mean it can't be beneficial to the Rockets down the line. The Rockets got a pick, an expiring for the next year and a trade exception for that deal, so it wasn't just a "favor", it was an asset management move. There is absolutely no way they did it because they thought Thabeet would be a project, just absolutely no way. Their scouting department is too good, and Thabeet is just that bad. He was picked up as trade asset to use the next year, I'd bet money on it. Now I'm sure they will do thier due dilligence, because they are smart, and send him to CD and Dream, etc. but I seriously doubt they had any hope for him whatsoever. Morey always has major expiring contracts ready for the year, because as you and I both know, he is an opportunist and is desperate to land that next star. Bobby Jackson 2 years ago, McGrady last year, Jeffries/Battier this year and Thabeet/Miller next year. That salary allows them trade for a star w/o giving up Martin or Scola, IE keep the team competitive once that star gets here. Think about it, if Howard becomes available, Arenas or Turk will have to go with them. How could we possibly muster up that much salary in return without completely gutting the team. We would need atleast 21m to make it work with a best case scenario (with Turk as the poison). God forbid they insist on someone taking Arenas. Without Thabeet, we couldn't make any big trade like that without giving up both Martin and Lowry, and if we do that, why would that big name sign an extension here? I don't think he surprised anyone, I think they knew exactly what they were getting, a walking talking expiring contract for next year. Their player evaluations are way too good. And I don't think its rational at all to believe this organization thinks they can get anything out of Thabeet. I know very little about basketball in the grand scheme of things, but the guy is flat out garbage. Sig bet? I bet Thabeet gets Jeffries treatment. Traded at the deadline, or bought out right after to skirt the lux tax. *edit* And as for the original topic, as much as people don't like Hill, I think he is a true prospect, ie a guy they will groom and develop. Sure they might trade him in a move if they really want to move up, but I really doubt they would just dump him. I think part of the draw of McHale is him grooming our young big men (Pat/Jordan)
First of all, if the Rockets wanted "a 2012 expiring contract" they could have made a trade with Cleveland for Jamison and likely would have gotten a better draft pick. Or the Rockets could have done Shane a favor AND saved more money by simply buying him out (and letting him catch on with Boston or Miami). Again, I'm not buying your little conspiracy theory. As for the sig bet, no way I'm taking that bet. It has nothing to do with the issue we're talking about here. I AGREE with you that Thabeet is a bad player and that the chances are that he fails. My point is about the Rockets' motivation for trading for him back in February. I'm not betting on Thabeet going forward. Sure hope we're both wrong, though.
Rockets have one of the lowest guaranteed payrolls for 2011-12 season. Rockets have less than $45 mil guaranteed salary, before counting the new draft picks. Keep in mind that the minimum team salary was $43.5 mil for 2010-11. Next season, they would be about $25-30 mil below the current luxury tax level of $70 something mil. The Rocket guaranteed team salary goes down to $33 mil in 2 years. An expiring contract, trade exception, to get below the luxury tax makes little sense, when the team salary doesn't even come close to it. Rockets still need to meet minimum team salary requirements. The league charges are worse than staying at the minimum or higher. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm
Ok, I will state in advance that I realize what I am about to propose is very unlikely. I also apologize if this has already been posted as I have not been able to read all the previous posts in this thread. That said here goes. This trade is really a combination of two different trades and neither works very well without the other. Chris Paul has not made it any secret that he is interested in leaving New Orleans and joining Amare and Melo in New York. Meanwhile, Dwight Howard looked ready to kill every member of his team after the playoff series and seems primed to leave town next summer. As such, both Orlando and New Orleans are worried about ending up like Cleveland. They will also see how well the Melo trade played out for Denver and take this as further encouragement. If you could get a trade deal with both New Orleans and Orlando, and then convince Chris Paul and Dwight Howard to both sign extensions to play together before you completed the trades, then you would have the first two parts of a "Big 3". A possible trade would be Houston Gives to NO: Kevin Martin, Kyle Lowry, Chase Budinger, 2 first round picks Houston Gets: Chris Paul Houston Gives Orlando: Yao Ming(assuming we could sign him to a more reasonable number) Jordan Hill, Terrence Williams, 2 first round picks. Houston Gets: Dwight Howard A couple possible rinkles would be instead of sending Yao Ming, the Hornets could dump Emeka Okafor's Contract to Orlando who would need a big man. I think if we can get Yao to agree to a deal with low guaranteed money but good incentives he would be a valuable trade chip. We could also include courtney lee or Patrick Patterson instead of one of the players previously listed but I am hesitant to give up those two players. Also this years draft pick would obviously be available. The biggest weakness this trade leaves us with is that we will not have any small forwards. I have not yet figured out a way around this problem. As for filling the last spot of the big 3, the candidates I have come across in the free agency market next summer are O.J. Mayo, Eric Gordon, and Gerald Wallace. None of these guys are superstars but are all I think great third options. I have to admit, I really would like to see Danny Granger as the third option, but his contract isn't up for another couple of years. Well, that's all. As I said, it is a low probability, but at the same time I think it is an absolute home run if Daryl Morey pulled this off.
Quick note on the trade above. It is close to being possible according to the ESPN trade machine. With some creative use of the trade exceptions it becomes a legal trade
