It's just going to be a long and tiresome process watching this team stink it up for long time while trying to get the pieces and then form contention. Oh my..... I feel nauseated thinking about it.
I don´t know how a thread made by a Kevin Martin "doubter" (not hater) since day 1, has 160 plus posts on it and the majority agrees with him. I guess the 150 people that preferred Joe Johnson and his beautiful contract as opposed to KM with is cheap and efficient contract, are keeping this alive and in full force. Of course KM will be traded, not because he is at his peak, not because we are going young, not because he is injury prone, not because he is unclutch, not because he has a horrible contract, not because he is weak, not because he is only efficient in RA offense, not because he is not top 5 at the SG position, not because he is one of the less efficient players in the game, not because he has a huge ego, but because ........ he will land us D12, that is how good he is (and if he doesn´t land us D12 the world doesn´t end, but right now we only have a shot at him because of KM). All people said when the KM trade happened was how injury prone he was, and I CAN´T BELIEVE people still say this crap about KM, but now they say, "we can´t expect him to be healthy all season next year". But then they go: "Bynum as alot of value for the Magic and D12 will go to LA", when Bynum at the age of 23, playing only 24 mins (and not carrying the team all season long like he will be demanded to do on the Magic team), has had alot of knee problems, I guess those knees will get better with age, and KM freak injuries will be a HUGE problem for a 31 mins per game player like KM has been (don´t get it twisted, when healthy Bynum>>>> KM, the problem is the same can be said about Yao when comparing to D12, and we all know how that went for us). Good GMs keep doors open, and right now there are still 2(or 3 with dwill) open doors out there that will decide the future very soon, so we waited this long for stars, a couple of months will not kill us. After those doors close.... anything can happen, and no one is untouchable. ps: The D12 trade will be very different to the dwill trade, Orlando are stuck with 2 horrible contracts, so they will not go full rebuilding mode, because they CAN´T. They will not be bad enough to get a top 5 pick, and because they are locked until the 2013/14 season, they will have no chance but to run with them, even if they don´t think Arenas got his mojo back, or that Turkoglu is the same player (even if they magically package Turkoglu with D12, they will still be stuck with Arenas). Utah is going young, they have alot of draft picks this year, and easy tradable contracts, so guys like Favors make sense for them. Favor for D12, would make 0 sense (talking about Favors being the center piece of the trade). Having said that we might be obliged to draft a guy like Bebe (or trade up to the 10th pick, for example, or pray that one of the 2 Lithuanians Cs drop) to sweeten the deal because they would have a huge hole in that position, and when this arenas - Turkoglu - KM (possibly) window closes, Bebe (or any other C) would still be along way until his prime, and Orlando could suck for a few ears, and then go young and right now he could help them just blocking some shots because offensively I think they will be well served inside with Bass, a player that IMO is ready to explode after the d12 era (exploding means, 15 8 guy with consistent mins). Sorry for the book PeAcE
I think KMart is a terrific player and not a bad option at the end of the game....but the player I personally prefer to take the final shot on the team is Kyle Lowry. KMart is squarely in the middle of his prime years and I think the question is what will he be when the team is a contender again. Also I think it's harder to find a quality Center than it is to find a quality 2 guard. Knowing that I would trade KMart if it would bring me back a Center that could start for the Rockets for the next decade.
A few points -- Kevin Martin will not get you Dwight Howard. I'll go on record, tip jar bet, anything.. he's not coming to Houston. One of the most important factors that you seemingly left out is Dwight will get to choose where he goes, much like Carmelo was able to choose where he went. So ask yourself: why on earth would Dwight Howard choose to play on this Kevin Martin-less team? The Rockets would be no more talented than his current team, and we'd likely be saddled with one of Orlando's other bad contracts. You said there are three doors -- whose the third? I know Dwight (not happening), DWill (2012 FA best chance there), but I'm blanking on a 3rd. Why wouldn't a Favors like package for Dwight not make sense? Your reasoning doesn't add up. You're claiming the Magic wouldn't want Favors because they wouldn't be a lottery team until a few years from now when their overpaid role players expire. If you actually think about it, by the time those guys are coming off the books, Favors should have improved greatly and be ready to anchor that team. Another viewpoint is that if they are not able to be bad enough to land a high draft pick, making a Favors-type deal would essentially be that high draft pick. I don't think your Favors rationale makes any sense.
And it begins.. <!-- http://twitter.com/#!/chadfordinsider/status/70664437777969152 --> <style type='text/css'>.bbpBox70664437777969152 {background:url(http://a2.twimg.com/profile_background_images/47748995/NBA_bg.jpg) #EDECE9;padding:20px;} p.bbpTweet{background:#fff;padding:10px 12px 10px 12px;margin:0;min-height:48px;color:#000;font-size:18px !important;line-height:22px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px} p.bbpTweet span.metadata{display:block;width:100%;clear:both;margin-top:8px;padding-top:12px;height:40px;border-top:1px solid #fff;border-top:1px solid #e6e6e6} p.bbpTweet span.metadata span.author{line-height:19px} p.bbpTweet span.metadata span.author img{float:left;margin:0 7px 0 0px;width:38px;height:38px} p.bbpTweet a:hover{text-decoration:underline}p.bbpTweet span.timestamp{font-size:12px;display:block}</style> <div class='bbpBox70664437777969152'><p class='bbpTweet'>Already hearing from sources that Minnesota has told people they're very open to moving No. 2 pick. Kahn wants veteran help ...<span class='timestamp'><a title='Wed May 18 01:38:09 +0000 2011' href='http://twitter.com/#!/chadfordinsider/status/70664437777969152'>less than a minute ago</a> via <a href="http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/twitter/id409789998?mt=12" rel="nofollow">Twitter for Mac</a> <a href='http://twitter.com/intent/favorite?tweet_id=70664437777969152'><img src='http://si0.twimg.com/images/dev/cms/intents/icons/favorite.png' /> Favorite</a> <a href='http://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=70664437777969152'><img src='http://si0.twimg.com/images/dev/cms/intents/icons/retweet.png' /> Retweet</a> <a href='http://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=70664437777969152'><img src='http://si0.twimg.com/images/dev/cms/intents/icons/reply.png' /> Reply</a></span><span class='metadata'><span class='author'><a href='http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider'><img src='http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/307420842/Me_normal.jpg' /></a><strong><a href='http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider'>Chad Ford</a></strong><br/>chadfordinsider</span></span></p></div> <!-- end of tweet -->
I could see moving Martin in a deal for the #2 pick and I like Martin. If we have a shot a a top three pick this summer, you have to go for it. It doesn't matter if this draft is considered "weak." While I'm pissed at Morey (and Less) over the treatment of Adelman, I still have trust in Morey to get a high value/impact player at #2.
I am a fan of selling high on KMart. I really prefer Lee to be honest. He is a better defensive player as well as a good shooter. We need a star. Somebody who can take over in the 4th quarter. And sadly, Kevin doesn't seem to be that guy.
And what exact does "veteran help" mean to them? We can rule out looking for a 4. They have committed to Darko and Kahn has openly gushed over him so I doubt they go for a 5. They have a ton of PGs and still have Rubio waiting in the wings. They have Beasley and their 4th pick last year to play the 3. SG is their weakest position and obvious hole for "veteran help" to come in and fill. So now the question becomes, can they really get a better SG than Martin for the #2 pick in this weak draft? Elite guys like Kobe and Wade are out of the question, so who? The only guy I can think of who is on the same level is Monta Ellis, and with him they have to ask whether they really want a 6'3 SG. If you go through the rosters "veteran help" can only mean SG, and I don't really see a lot of better options than Martin. Especially if we decide to sweeten it with the 14th pick too. For all the people who were so incredulous when I merely suggested Martin could be traded for a top 5 pick, please show me some alternatives for the Wolves to get their "veteran help".
The real question is how to value Martin. He is easily worth the #2 pick, but is he worth more? We say we need a superstar, but we have a top ten scorer in the league on low volume shooting. I'm open to the idea of trading Martin, but maybe we are severely undervaluing him because he doesn't "take over" and can't get his own shot as easily as other players. He doesn't look like a superstar, even though he puts up superstar stats.
Iguodala is only marginally better which we can make up by including the 14th pick. Also he just came off a down year while Martin just had a career year.
Phil can offer the #16 pick and Iggy. Not saying it's better necessarily, Iggy is a worse contract. But maybe Minn likes him.
You're right. But if trading Iggy for the #2 pick is plausible then obviously Martin for a top 5 pick isn't as out of the question as some people made it seem.
We aren't exactly in the position to be worrying about undervaluing Martin. This is a top 3 pick and we are considering acquiring it for essentially Landry (the 31st pick). If you remember the Sonics traded Allen and a 2nd rounder to the Celtics in exchange for Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak, and the fifth overall pick. Ray Allen was certainly a better player than Martin is now.
Exactly what I think, the Rockets would not lose all that much by starting Courtney Lee, and trading Kmart for the number 2 pick. DD
Wait a second. For you trading CHASE BUDINGER for a top pick is too much giving up a sure thing for an unknown, yet you are on board with trading Kmart? Please explain.
Good point. And looking back it was a low risk trade. If the pick turns out to be a bust and the team stinks, the NBA rewards you with another lotto pick the next year until you get it right. Even though Jeff Green underperformed, the Sonics sucked so they got another great pick the next year.
Makes perfect sense -- trade a proven superstar, great off-the-court guy, who wants to play in Houston for an unknown draft pick, and ya'll cannot even agree which player to pick.
