Now that the series of the Malazan book of the fallen is finished, I’m curious to know your opinions about the book. Because not everybody has finished the books it might be a good idea to keep the spoilers from “the crippled God” in spoilers. Let’s discuss the following What are your general thoughts on the series? For me this is the best Fantasy series I have read, I loved Wheel of time, and A Song of Ice and Fire. But this series was just even more amazing. This is the only series I have ever re-read, and in the re-read it is even better. Just an amazing series. What was your favourite book of the series? For me it is: Deadhouse gates (chain of dogs was amazing, and tragic) Reaper’s gale (Tehol just stole the show, and the anticipation of Karsa Orlong and Icariumm going to Rhulad) Memories of Ice (just amazing story) Who was your favourite God? My vote goes to Mael. Cottilion, shadowthrone Treach, Krull were all great, but Mael just stole the show for me Who was your favourite Character? This is difficult; there are so many great characters: Quick Ben, Icarium, Mappo, Fiddler, Iskaral pust, Gesler, Karsa orlong, Telorast and Curdle , Tool, Onrack, traveler and the list goes on and on. My two favourite Characters were Tehol, and Bottle. I really cannot choose between these two, the comic brilliance of Tehol. Who was the most tragic character? Ofcourse Duiker was a tragic figure, and he is my close second. However my choice would be BEWARE SPOILER OF “THE CRIPPLED GOD” Spoiler Mappo, to have gone trough all he has gone through and finally find Icarium and die was just so tragic. How did you like “the Crippled God”? For me it started a bit slow. I did not care that much about the Snake and the Shake. But after the end it picked up, I would have liked a bit more screen time, for some of my favourite Characters. And ofcourse there are enough unanswered questions, but that is what you expect from Erikson Is there anything you want to be explained a bit more in other books (for example the books of Esslemont)? Spoiler I would have liked to know a bit more about Quick Ben, they hinted in the series that he was a d'ivers, but they did not get into that in "the Crippled God"
I didn't read much of your post to avoid spoilers, but I have the first 9 books on my nook. Have heard mixed reviews on this series. Lots say it's way too vast & complicated. But as someone who loves and adores the Song of Ice & Fire series, would Malazan be recommended? If so, I'll start it after I finish Dance With Dragons.
I've read 5 or 6 or maybe 7 of them and have no clue which of those it is. I've read the backs/flaps to try and figure out which book I'm on and can't figure it out. This has never happened to me with any other series. They were fairly enjoyable when I read them (although I didn't think they were great), but I'm basically done with them at this point. My personal opinion, and that's all it is, is that Erikson may or may not have a great story he is telling, but he either isn't very good at or has purposely chosen to fail at a few key duties of a writer. As I said, that's just my opinion on the series as you asked for it. I know it is a favorite for a lot of people and I do think it's a great fete to actually finish such a long and complicated series.
Yes if you love the song of Ice and Fire you should read the malazan. The biggest problem people have with the MBotF is that it is to complicated, the same can be said for Song of ice and fire. Both writers are not the nicest writers to their own characters, as in many popular people will not survive till the end of the series, which makes both books very exiting (because you really do not know what will happen). The MBotF has more magic and different races in it. The first book is pretty difficult, you start in a big battle and you have no idea who is who and why they are fighting. Basically in the third book you are starting to understand the world. But if you can accept that at times you do not understand everything it is an amazing book (many times a paragraph end with something like "both looked at each other and knew what should be done" And I had no idea what needed to be done). It is complicated, it is not a basic fantasy series (with a young guy growing up into a superhero). But it has been the most rewarding series of books I have ever read. You will not regret reading it.
That doesn't sound like a problem. Sounds like a season of LOST. I'll start it after Dance With Dragons (already working on something else until then). Thanks for the feedback.
If you can get through the first half of the first book, you'll love the series. I've talked to a couple of people that quit in the first book, but when I encouraged them to finish it, they love the series. It is discouraging to a lot of people that Erikson picks up the story in the MIDDLE with a lot of "history" and then starts his writing. It gives the series a big backdrop of history to draw upon without actually telling the historical story, similar to Lord of the Rings. My only personal complaint is the "magic system" takes some getting used to.
Honestly, that's why I never got into the whole "Wheel of Time" series. I couldn't get through the first book without falling asleep. In all fairness, that was back in high school (around 1996, I think) and I'm a much bigger reader now than I was then. Lots have told me I need to try again.
Yes that is actually the comparison I use. It does feel a lot like lost. Yes the magic system is a bit difficult. What i did after a couple of books. I went to the forum on www.malazanempire.com after I finished a book, to see if there were things that I missed. Wheel of time can be a bit boring every now and then. Especially when the woman are involved in the story line. Also the Perrin story line can be frustrating for me. Furthermore there is almost no difference between the character of all the woman in those books, they are al strong independent woman who complain all the time and just Bash the Male characters in the books. It gets a bit old. That being said I will definitely finish the series, it was one of my favourite series before Song of Ice and Fire and the Malazan book of the fallen. Really I thought it would have been released a bit earlier in the US. Ok maybe in a couple of weeks people will post in this thread. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, even if it is wrong I understand a lot of the criticism on the books, they can be difficult to understand, Erikson doesn't explain a lot in his books. There are a couple of IMHO important aspects that were not explained in the 10 books. It is not a normal Fantasy book where we have a hero who starts as a young kid and grows up to be the great hero defeating evil. Just like Song of Ice and Fire, most characters are not good or evil, but shades of grey. Also it basically tells the story of events that happen, some characters will appear in the second book and not re-appear until the eight book (or not re-appear at all). If you can look past these things the book can be very enjoyable.
Posting in the What are you reading? thread as well, but I figured it belonged here as well. I was really looking forward to reading Book 7, Reaper's Gale. It seemed like a lot of separate plot threads were going to come into a titanic crash against one another. However, this book was marred by Erikson's meandering writing style. I've said before that I don't mind reading a 1200+ page book, but this book was filled with countless pages of random musings. A good editor would have lopped off at least 400 pages and produced a far greater work. But the most egregious problem Erikson commits over and over again is his shifting POV's between his overlarge group of characters. Yes, it is great that he ties this groups together and has a large cast, but he is terrible at forming a good narrative with them. Too many times, he gives 5-10 pages to an interesting group, takes them right up to the point of a juicy conflict, then leaves those characters for 100+ pages. All too often, Erikson transitions to another character and spends 1-2 pages describing the setting of a new character until he finally mentions who the hell we're reading about. Book 7 Spoilers Spoiler There were so many conflicts I wanted to read. Karsa and Icarium journeying to throw down against Rhulad. As well as the other champions (particulary the Segulah). This was so built up, then fizzled out completely. After Erikson gets into nitty gritty detail of obscure military characters, he completely abandons the Champions and their fights against the Emperor. Just that he mowed them down, and that Icarium fled. This whole plotline was left alone for hundreds of pages, and then there was a kind of deus ex machina takedown by Karsa with the aid of a bunch of spirits. Epic letdown. Fear, Trull, and Seren. The whole Silchas Ruin party was so freaking mopey. I felt like I was reading Twilight at times. Fear finally reunites with his brother. Dead before they can talk. Seren hooks back up with Trull, he's dead before we really get a scene with them together. Fair enough that he kills those characters off, but if you mope your way through thousands of pages with those plot threads, you have to give us more than that as a payoff. Quick Ben, Onrack, and Trull had a dreadfully boring trip. Even Quick Ben and Hedge reuniting was handled off screen, while Onrack and Trull witnessed them from afar. Ditto Hedge and Fiddler finally meeting up in Lether. Build towards this emotional scene, now let's throw it to another character's POV and quickly move on to something else. The Malazan army. Interesting Marine tactics, but handled very unevenly. Erikson moved to very obscure characters at odd moments. The giant battle in the village could have been colossal, but instead he chose this moment to start introducing us to very minor characters' POV. It lost all sense of momentum every time it started to get in motion. Beak was interesting and all, but that was a complete and total deus ex machina device. Let's introduce a character and have the Bonehunters magically device a vastly superior force using magic that had never been displayed before this book. The Redmask plotline was also grating. It was a cool concept to introduce, but Erikson cut away from Redmask and his army every time they were about to enter a conflict only to pick it up hundreds of pages later, killing all momentum. Toc the Younger was wasted again. I feel ripped off following this brooding guy around for him to die at that spot. Maybe it'll play in the final 3 books, but that was weak sauce. Surely Tehol and Bugg can provide some much needed humor and fun to the story. Alas, Erikson gave them short treatment as well. They were used too briefly, and we got a pretty high level view once Tehol's financial collapse finally hit. Bugg trapped, and Tehol was arrested. Even the fun lead up would get a brief mentioned then get buried for far too long. I was pretty disappointed in this book. 2 out of 5 stars, and I'm getting the feeling that I'll leave this series disappointed when I do finish. I would definitely not recommend at this point to anybody else. The only other series of length that I read recently is Robin Hobb's Fitz and Fool series, which was so superior to this. If I wasn't this invested, I'd quit the series, but I do want to see how it ends. I'm reading Book 8 now, which is in theory exciting. Back to Darujhistan. Book 8 Spoilers Spoiler I'm excited about the location, Crokus\Cutter\, the return of Ralick Nom, Mappo hunting down Icarium, Gruntle, the impending civil war in the assassin guild, and that squad of Bridge Burners. Alas, we have Kruppe, who is the most annoying character in the entire series.
To bad you are losing interest in the series. Erikson does indeed build up to a climax and then go to another story line. I agree that he could do it a bit less. Again this becomes worse int he latter books. He also builds up to a climax and than make it a Anti-climax big example is the Spoiler Icarium, Karsa Orlong Rhulad storyline . It is a choice which I do not always agree with. I also didn't care much for the Redmask storyline. On of the things I do not like about Erikson is that in the end of the series he continues to introduce new characters and storyline, and I would have liked to have a bit more information about Characters we know. Especially in the last 2 books this is bad. If you do not like kruppe you will not be happy in Toll the hounds. that book is narrated by Kruppe. I wasn't to impressed with TtH. It was a bit boring in the beginning (like you said many random musings) but the last couple of 100 pages are incredible. I liked the Robin Hobb series (much better than the soldier son trilogy). But for me those books not close to tMBOtF. I would rank my favorite series tMBOtH Wheel of Time Deadhouse Gates Other series like Dragon lance, Robin Hobb's Fitz and Fool series, The Sword of Truth, other series of Weis and Hickman.
I agree. Kruppe is annoying. Weird Canadian humor (Erikson), I guess. Iskaral Pust is annoying as well. Something you need to understand when you read these books is that this isn't a standalone series. It was co-created with another author named Ian C. Esselmont, and he's writing concurring books in the same world, and sometimes the story overlaps. In fact, it wouldn't hurt to back up and read Return of the Crimson Guard by Esselmont....at some point around book 8. I'm sure some fanboy has the chronology of both author's books down if you google it. Erikson is planning on writing more books in the Malazan world, too. And there are several continents we haven't seen. The worldbuilding here is on a scope never seen before, IMO. Also, Erikson is an anthropologist AND an archeologist. Esselmont is an archeologist as well. I get the feeling that Erikson is fairly brilliant. All of this adds up to some multiple massive threads. If you re-read the series you will see it.
Iskaral Pust is one of my favorite characters apperantly Canadianand Dutch humor are similar. I agree with the re-reading part, there are so many hints in the earlier books on what is going to happen, and also in my re-read I found out that the books were not as difficult as I thought.
I agree with you, Xerobull. If Fiddler could lob a cusser into a room with Kruppe and Iskaral Pust, the world would be a happier place. I've heard even worse things about Esselmont as a writer, and I'm not impressed with Erikson. Certainly not enough to read any more after this series is over. I really appreciate the scope of what he's doing, and I can tell he has an anthropology background and decades of work building this world and its history, races, and magic system. Still, I feel it fails at being an entertaining story. For me, it just comes down to the shifting POV's and inability to sustain momentum. I can't seem to read more than small chunks of any of his books (excepting Gardens of the Moon and the first quarter of Memories of Ice). I get excited to see a character only to have him shift away to a set of characters I don't like, and I just can't make myself read any more than day. I agree that he knew where the whole series was going when he started writing, and there are loads of hints. Still, the story doesn't seem to grow organically. It seems the whole time to be on rails that the author has dictated, usually orchestrated by the all-knowing plans of Shadowthrone, the Crippled God, Tavore, the Empress, or Quick Ben. Why is this happening? Because the author has declared it so. I like to have reasons for events taking place. In many ways, this series reads like non-fiction orchestrated by supernatural beings. Also, the lack of big payoffs is surprising. So many conflicts have fizzled out, and others were grossly glossed over or found a way to magically resolve themselves. In a 12000 page fantasy series, I expect epic confrontations, scenes, and plotlines, but there's been a definite dearth in Malazan Book of the Fallen. I don't hate this series, and I do intend to finish it. I'm really looking forward to being done so I can read something else. I just think it's flawed due to some writing and organizational choices made by Erikson. Maybe it's just not my cup of tea. I don't want to rain on the parade of those who like it. Just chipping in my $.02.
We appreciate it. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I understand there are some weak points in the series. And for some people that is a dealbreaker. No problem. I'm not as fond of te writing of Esslemont. I will read his books since I love this world, and want to know more about it. But his books are not close to being as good as Eriksons Books IMHO.
I would say, and I think someone touched on it above, that Erikson is an excellent writer. The books, for the most part, have needed better editors. A top notch editor would have been able to chop out huge swaths of pages from the series, as well as reordering and putting a better flow. The result would have made the books much, much better.
