So I was having this discussion with a friend and was curious as to the thoughts of the board here on the matter. How many people believe in fate and how many believe in chance and the choices we make? For a long time I've been on the fence, but probably leaned more towards causality and chance than fate. I feel like if you believe in fate, you can't believe in free will. If certain events like meeting a soulmate or getting a certain job were as they were meant to be, then doesn't that also mean the lunch you have today and the time you got up were also your destiny? I mean if Point F is plotted from Point A, it would only make sense that Points B, C, D and E are destiny too right? If that's the case, why even get out of bed if its all going to work itself out? On chance, I posted a thread on causality going more in detail. Basically every decision we make creates the path we walk i.e. butterfly effect. Now this is something we can prove just by replaying events and the effects they create. Some could make the argument that it was all fate in the end and causality was just the vehicle getting us there. The only to prove this would be to have a time machine, go back and change an action and see if the same result occurred. Since that's not happening any time soon, it falls to discussion. With the argument against chance, there are times that things occur that are very low in probability and seem to take a series of unlikely events to bring to fruition. While of course there are exceptions and statistical anomalies, it does give strength to the fate argument. I guess you could counter act that by saying over a long enough period, all things are likely at some point, but even that is only a cheap argument. So what do yous guys think?
Destiny is something you're meant to do, Fate is something that happens to you, and Free Will is a variable.
saying that something happened because of "fate" holds as much water to me as someone claiming that prayer changed the course of events. chance dictates the universe. "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." -Carl Sagan
Exactly. Things are the way they are because things happened the way they did. For example, if Earth were 150 degrees hotter, we wouldn't be here. So what? Something else would be...or wouldn't be. The present state of things is simply a result. Same thing as meeting your future wife in line at the bank on a day you don't normally go, narrowly escaping a head-on collision, making a game winning 3 after missing 8 straight, or anything that seems lucky or highly unlikely.
"Fate" is a concept used primarily by those who have been disappointed by life and by those who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. Note the type of people, and the situation they're in, who say, "If it was meant to be then it would have happened..." or "I guess it just wasn't meant to be..."
I agree with this view for the most part. Lately though, I can't help but wonder if its foolish to ignore high occurrences of unlikely things. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about religion here. Just lots of odd coincidences. Also good call on the Sagan quote. That guy was awesome. I've always found the argument for life on Earth as proof of the divine to be highly illogical. If the conditions weren't perfect, we wouldn't be here to ask the question in the first place. It is interesting to hear others opinions on this.
Morpheus: I imagine that right now, you're feeling a bit like Alice. Hmm? Tumbling down the rabbit hole? Neo: You could say that. Morpheus: I see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that's not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo? Neo: No. Morpheus: Why not? Neo: Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life. Morpheus: I know *exactly* what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about? Neo: The Matrix. Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is? Neo: Yes. Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Neo: What truth? Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.
In my opinion, almost no one fully believes in fate. Stephen Hawking summed it up nicely: "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
In accordance with my faith, I believe in 'pseudo' free will. I have free choice to do whatever I want, but God is omniscient. Omniscience doesn't destroy my ability to act however I want, and I am not predestined/predetermined to act in a certain way.
It sounds like free will. Where does the "pseudo" come from? You're saying you make your choices, but believe in consequences for them right?
