Steve Francis Subjected to Maoist Struggle Session

how is it cao ni lao mu a serious matter anyways, its not like we're hogging the whole forum going back and forth like some other YOFs
I mean, you don't see KG getting suspended for cursing at Kobe

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not sayin he's KG and i'm Kobe but well, guess china will always be a touchy subject in this forum
i apologize thou if i offeneded anyone

 

If education and standard of living is worth having the following problems...

1) Corrupt legal system
2) Suppressing freedom of speech, press and movement
3) Routine abuse and misuse of rural workers
4) Communist government controlled religion only, all other forms of worship unlawful and highly persecuted (ie: Christianity, Tibetan Buddhism, Falun Gong
5) Complete lack of political freedom or choice in the matter
6) Murdering of babies through one-child policy
7) Severe and unwarranted capital punishment
8) Torture
9) Political abuse of psychiatry
10) Mistreatment of ethnic minorities
11) Abuse of Tibetans
12) Unwarranted use of armed forces upon civilians

...then you are right, China is doing better. Personally, I think that's Communist Totalitarianism at its worst. I must say, I'm highly disappointed in you as a human being.

I guess everything is ok as long as China, the country prospers. By those standards anything is ok, even the most horrendous of crimes is ok. You can commit genocide but as long as it makes China better it is ok.

I happen to sincerely and deeply disagree. I think those human right violations make China a weaker country with no moral standing amongst the civilized advanced nations of the world. As long as the crimes listed continue to exist the Chinese government cannot be recognized as a country ready to join the rest of the world and remains a 3rd world country. They might have money but that's not enough. What you are spouting is barbaric and inhuman.

What's next? The Taliban government will be good too? I mean, by those standards, the Taliban government is making their country better in their own eyes. If you believe what you are saying then you could poison and murder entire nations just as long as China benefits. That, good sir, is not the kind of country I want as my global neighbor.

Good sir, you should be thankful to whatever deity you pray to that you were not one of the murdered babies of China through the one-child policy, otherwise you wouldn't be here today to spout such ignorance.

 

seriously you watch too much fox news. there are things to be improved on over these matters, but way not to the extent you are preaching. have you ever been to China? if not, why don't you come over and enjoy a vacation. then you will find some of your arguments (suppressed religion and freedom of speech, killing babies, capital punishment, and so forth) are just laughable.

sometimes if you think you know everything, you become the ignorant one.

 

I will never find any of those issues laughable. Ever.

The fact that you do demonstrates ignorance and absolute lack of care for humanity.

 

The Hong Kong police stopped me on the street and asked me where i was from randomly, I told them "TEXAS", then they said.. oh! ok!
:grin:

 

to answer your questions:

1.yes legal system is corrupt, it is improving but won't get to where U.S anytime soon, however, it is decent for such a large, developing country
2. yes the freedoms you mentioned are suppressed, however, it is a rather necessary measure given the current status of china where social stability is more important than ever, as a result of stability, china experienced the fastest economic growth in the past few decades in modern history, limited is a small price, without economic backbone, drastic political reform won't lead china to anywhere better
3.again, many workers are abused, it's a problem that rose out of rapid urban development, where do you draw the line? if all workers are taken care like they are in western countries, where does china's competitive advantage of cheap labor come from?　china's official policy is to let some people become rich first, and the overall standard of living is still improving, where do you draw the line on the abuse of labors? it's easy to accuse, but as a country of 1.3 billion, it's not so easy in reality
4.on the contrary, there is actually relative religious freedom in china, tibetan Buddhism, Christianity and Muslim are not discourged, it is more of a western stereotype and propaganda, Fa lun gong is not a religion, it is a cult, and the majority of chinese people are firmly against it, go talk to one of the believers and you will find out
5.again, although democracy is the ultimate goal, i, nor most ppl believe china is ready for it, hopefully in the future the communist and the nationalists etc. can work out something, but for now, the commis are actually doing a decent job
6.so if every chinese family has 4-5 children like they did in the previous generations, are you, or any other govt going to feed the starving population? china is using something like 1/12 of the farmland of the world feeding 1/5 of the population already (the 1/12 maybe a wrong number, but it is something similar, i do not recall the exact figure)it is a policy that benefit china and its population and supported by the people
7.why waste tax payer's money on prisoners? if you are a murder, it's only fair you suffer capital punishment
8.govt is cracking down but unfortunately you are right on this one, don't see it stopping anytime soon
9.political system is what it is, believe how you want to, though some actions are necessary for the benefit of chinese society as a whole
10.ethnic minoriites are not mistreated, in fact they are given many more priviliges than majority Han population, western sources are seriously biased on this one
11.tibetans are not mistreated, their rights improved greatly since Dalai exiled, western media portrays dalai as this freedom fighter for tibetans, not true, u know it's actually the commis who freed tibetan serfs and made every equal?
12.how so?

stay civil please
and for your last few paragraphs, regardless how you view my ideals or my beliefs, i actually had the opportunity to witness both sides of the story
understand that china and US are under vastly different circumstances, and talk to some people from china and you will understand more

 

Well, this is actually a very good post. I like the fact that you acknowledge issues are a problem where you know they are a problem. You also explain why you differ on other points of view rather than just saying everything is ok because China is growing and expanding. I'm actually impressed.

I don't agree with all your points but I like how you stated them. You are using your brain and not blindly spouting how everything is ok. You recognize that there are problems while acknowledging there is some good as well.

 

别装逼了！还真以为自己是老外？

 

China of course has its own problems. But it's having these problems because it's a developing country with huge population. Communism isn't the primary issue.

Check India and how many of these problems do not exist in India?

 

Mods, can we just end the misery of this thread and move it to D&D? Or lock it? This was about Francis's sad decline. Yao should sign him :grin:

 

Clutch should ban this "YOF" terminology!

 

I really for a moment thought you knew what you talking about other than news collecting. guess some education is necessary.

again, nobody denied the problems, it's about the extent of the matters you were exaggerating. Welcome to China.

 

Not really. Many people are only fans because of Yao and could careless about the Rockets. They are Yao-only-fans.

 

1. "Corrupt" is the wrong word for the legal system. "Imaginary" is a better word. There are no two sides to weigh. Lawyers are 95% useless in court trials.
2. "Social stability" is important to whom? The people who are living at the top? I'm sure it's not important to the lowest stratum of society. "I'm at the bottom of society and I want this situation to remain stable" LOL
3. Who cares about China's "competitive advantage"? Oh yeah, the factory owners! Are you actually gonna start arguing for trickle-down economics now? I thought the revolution rejected and disproved that. China had trickle down economics for about 5000 years, Dude.
4. Religious freedom? I'm not even going to answer this. What's wrong with Falungong exactly? It's a cult? What's wrong with that again? Please explain. The word "cult" is not enough.
5. Ah, the old "Chinese are too stupid/wild" for democracy argument. Well, if they are too stupid/wild for democracy, I guess that is the government's failure to educate the people after 61 years of power. Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "not ready" for democracy?
6. OK, I admit China's population problem is fizzucked.
7. First of all, China executes embezzlers and others, not just murderers. Second, I don't think money is a good reason to execute people. Surely money is a common reason for murder in the first place; your logic justifies killing for monetary reasons.
8.
9.
10. Ethnic minorities are treated like zoo animals. They are paraded on TV in their "ethnic clothes" singing their "ethnic songs" while Han Chinese wear contemporary clothes and sing contemporary music. It's like having native Americans show up on TV every new year's eve wearing headdresses and banging drums; aren't they allowed to wear t-shirts and jeans sometimes? Have you seen the minority zoo near the Olympic Village? You can walk down the street and see some Tibetans in their native habitat ten meters away from some Mongolians also living in their native habitat ten meters away from some Miao people living in their native habitat ten meters away from . . . . The only ones missing are the Hans. Why? Oh, they're viewing the natives.
11. Gosh, it's weird how the Tibetans are so violently ungrateful for being liberated. Why do they get angry when people speak the language of their beloved liberators? Maybe extreme hostility is a way of expressing gratitude in minority cultures.

 

lol, you guys are funny. :grin:

 

I can assure you, I didn't exaggerate one bit. Every single claim I have made is backed up by reputable media sources from around the world. Here is some food for thought, when the entire world acknowledges that what China's Communist government is doing violates multitudes of human rights then they are on to something. If everybody says it and only China can deny it with many abused citizens actually disagreeing then the evidence points towards China being guilty. Any non-corrupted court of law would agree.

You know, outside China, people are not blinded by Communist propaganda. Nobody has to exaggerate human abuse when it occurs all the time. The poor pregnant woman's abuse didn't have to be exaggerated one bit.

Don't try to make China's horrendous human rights crimes seem less than they are. Don't fall to the Chinese Communist totalitarian government propaganda. Things, if anything, are worse than I stated.

 

You know the biggest reason why there is not more popular support for democracy in China.

Russia

The chinese look at how the russians went from communism to democracy and are scared.

 

He got cut?

 

1. the legal system is what it is, it is different from the U.S and it is guilty until proven innocent, yes lawyers are largely useless but there are still laws and procedures to follow and is working though not as efficient as it can be, ppl with money tend to get away most of the time but so do rich ppl in other countries
2. social stabilty is important for all chinese ppl, same as U.S, there are poor ppl in every country and in china, as it is developing and has such a huge population, there are more than western countries, but that doesn't mean a social revolution would make everything better, everyone's situation in china is steadily getting better though those underprivileged are doing so at a much slower rate, its mostly capitalist economy, the poor has a chance to move up, but most of them end up where they started
3. the chinese ppl care about comparative advantage, how do you expect china to develop ? by competing in technology? I am sure that's what the govt would prefer, but china is in no position to do it, it is where they are aiming for in the future. even western countries such as the U.S pointed out that developing countries can do best by competing in labor intensive industries and gradually move up the ladder
4. well, read on wiki about fa lun gong, they are a cult in the sense that the believers refuse medication and rather practice falungong when got sick, and not surprisingly many died; they demanded political power, something that the U.S would not even allow by separating church and state, during the Si chuan earth quake, fa lun gong followers blamed it on the communist govt and said it happened because they angered god, and tried to stop donations to victims from oversea chinese communities, happened in new york and LA, read the bogus they publish in epoch times and you will find out more
5. no one said chinese ppl are too wild nor stupid, but simply look at the countries around china, those successful in east asian economic model, japan, south korea, taiwan all experienced more authoritarian type of gvt during their growth and only later turned democratic, india and russia on the other hand, tried differently, i think china prefers the route taken by the more successful countries
7. obviously there is a limit on how much one embezzles before capital punishment is practiced, given it is a sever problem in china, no reason to not use capital punishment, just like drug traffickers, they may survive in US but will face certain death in countries including china, singapore, etc.
10.that is so wrong i don't even know what to say, go visit and find out yourself. I spent the first decade and half of my life in northern china, majority of my neighbors and classmates were ethnic Han, but there were Hui, Miao, Man etc. and no one views anyone else differently because of their ethnic background. as far as we are concerned, we are all chinese and that's what matters
11. you can thank dalai and the small separatist movement for that(no finger pointing, but it is a common belief in china that a lot of the violence was funded by countries with democratic govts), even the melting pot here takes time for ppl of different cultural background to mix together, current chinese gvt controlled tibet only for the past half century, and really only improved tibet for the past 3 decades, takes time