I'm not anti Isreal, and to tell you the truth I don't feel I have a lot of knowledge on the situation to discuss it in most threads. But one thing I do know is that we, the US, base our support on them being a democracy in the Middle East. A sort of beacon of light. Would a none Jewish person have any chance of becoming prime minister of Isreal? If the answer is no, I think we would have a higher moral ground to stand on if we were more honest about what it is.
This isreal, folks. There are arab parties and politicans in Israel, though I doubt they have much change of winning the head job. Some Arab parties have been banned from running.
Yeah but that's more an issue of demographics than democracy. Arab-Israelis can vote in the election and do but their turnout has steadily declined since the founding of Israel. Its still a democracy but democracy isnt a criterion for freedom or anything else that we value. It's just a political system that happens to involve the general public. That's all it should be valued as.
This is kind of an odd post, with all due respect, pgabriel. In my opinion, the problems caused by Israel's current government (arguably extremist) are rooted in Israel's democratic system. It has a severe flaw. Tiny political parties are allowed seats in their parliament. The resulting chaos has the major political parties sucking up to the extremists to form a governing coalition. The major party "in power" today is very conservative, but they have been pushed ever further to the right in order to maintain power. So sure, Israel is a democracy, a flawed democracy, who desperately needs to reform its political system so they can push the small groups of extremists to the curb. That's my opinion, anyway.
"Democract" and "Republic" are just words countries tack onto their name to make it seem modern or something. Examples: The People's Republic of China (laughable) The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (AKA North Korea... added both!) At least Israel doesn't put it in its name.
I don't really care if they are democracy or not. What I want to know is what does the United States get out of its relationship with Isreal. Other than causing problems for the US, what have Isreal done for the Us in terms of a partner? Seems like the relationship is a totally one sided relationship where one party enjoy all the benefits.
It's a parliamentary system where every citizen can vote. The grad school crowd might debate the 'real' definition of democracy...but us layman usually accept the above. They even use a proportional vote system rather then a pure first-past-the-post. According to wiki The United Arab Party even has four seats in parliament -- which is better representation then such a group would have in many other democracies. When I see the nuttiness of the US election after one serious terrorist threat I'm sort of resigned that I'm not going to pleased with the results of Israeli elections -- but then...that's the rub with democracies: you have to let the voters decide.
okay, sorry for my ignorance. if they have arab parties, then i guess I have nothing to challenge, should had looked that up first.
Their representation is largely irrelevant though. No Zionist party will ever form a coalition government with Arab parties today. (ironically enough the Mapai party routinely formed coalitions with Arab parties when Israel was formed) Its a pretty sad situation there today and as a result Arabs dont even bother voting anymore. Their turnout is terrible today.
Would a Turk have a chance of becoming Prime Minister of Germany? Would an Algerian have a chance of becoming Prime Minister of France? Would a Pakistani have a chance of becoming Prime Minister of the UK?
Deckard (an honored and valuable member of the community -- whose name I drop at any opportunity to enhance my own standing) raised the flipside of proportional representation: that forced coalitions encourage the merely loony to group with the truly nutty to govern, which sometimes means the fringe get a stronger voice then they otherwise would. And....yes, the chance of an Arab party forming government is slim to none...perhaps a bit better than the chances of a new Arab party forming the government in the US...
that's really not what i meant, but like I said, i started this thread out of ignorance that being said, would a half black guy with a funny arabic sounding name have a chance of becoming a US president?
You are asking a very bizarre question, the Arabs in Israel make for around a million and a half votes, the Jewish make for around 5 or more... So no, right now there is no chance for a non jewish leadership because Israel is a democracy. The problem is that some of the Israeli arabs in the north of Israel don't accept their nationality and consider themselves Palestinians (and do not agree to pay taxes and many such things), so their political groups are usually banned from being part of the government (They don't accept Israel right to exist). And geeimsobored, stop publishing propaganda, the Israeli arab population actually increased during the years, and many are studying in our universities and blend into our society (I studied, worked and lived with many Israeli arabs for 7 years now) and many of their youth is politicly active . Yep, there is still discrimination and mutual hate, and we are still very far from the ideal coexistence, but this will take time and the old generations that lived during the wars and are still full of hatred in both sides must parish before things will get better. And the reason our government sucks right now is that the current head of the opposition was greedy and she didn't want to sit in the government without being the head of the state. So she forced Netanyahu to pull a radical impotent government full of small exreme parties. This is sad because a huge part of the populations actually have chosen her so she could balance Netanyahu, and her greediness just made her do the opposite and letting the racist Liberman take control of power. I think She believed that this government will just make the people hate the current regime, giving her more power in the next elections.
Thats not propoganda. Voting Turnout AS A PERCENTAGE has gone down consistently since the founding of Israel. Political participation in the form of voting has declined constantly. That's a fact. I'm not arguing that there isnt integration, I'm arguing that political participation in the form of voting has decreased dramatically. The Mapai (later Labor) party formed coalitions routinely with Arab parties and a majority of Arab voters actually used to vote for Zionist parties during the first few elections. Ben Gurion even said he'd rather form coalitions with Arab parties than orthodox parties. And voting in terms of a percentage was much higher back then than it is today. Now obviously this is due to a variety of factors. Gaza and the West Bank werent even part of Israel at the time and Israel proper was much smaller as a whole. You didnt have a movement for Palestine at the time, etc.. But dont call any of that propaganda because you're flat out wrong.
I am not talking about just economics. Isreal caused US problems all over the Muslim world. The US have to stand up for Isreal in the UN everytime, it does not matter if Isreal is in the right or wrong. The US gives Isreal billions of aids every year. What benefits does the US get out of its military alliance with Isreal?
The only safe middle east American military base near the Suez tunnel is in Israel (with the current Turkish prime minister going with Iran)."Rumours" say that the radar the US wanted to put in Poland is now in Israeli territory. Israel is also trying to block the Iranian attempts to influence the more moderate Islamic nations (like Egypt) and the Palestinians...
