Lieberman: "There is no humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip"

Yeah, it doesn't sound like they did the right thing there. Seems like almost all countries are criticizing them quite heavily for it, too.

 

Nah, I just hope something happens where isn't in any position of power or influence.

 

do ppl in this thread realize that the title is referring to "Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman" as opposed to Joe? :grin:

 

Firsty it was Israeli waters. The IDF waited until the ships entered Israel territory before attacking, this is why they waited for a day before the attack.

And just to show you the other side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE&feature=player_embedded#!

Here you can see how the guys on the ship ambush the seals by numbers. They put the cameras on the other ships so they won't see what really happened on this ship. The international media should at least bring the other side of the story.

 

Yea...but if the Israeli government knew this would be a set up...why did they play into it perfectly? Is that Israeli restraint at play? This just makes it look like they don't care what the world thinks and they don't care about no peace, either. I hope it was worth it. The other side set out to make Israel look bad...and they did.

 

Because There are bases of many terror groups in the Gaza strip, not only Hamas but also AlQuida and the Islamic jihad possess strongholds in there. Those groups have already tried to smuggle weapons using the world humanitarian aid.

Even your biased news agrees that Israel is giving the Palestinians their relief eventually, after checking it out.I agree that the situation is not simple, but I do understand why the IDF is so stubborn regarding those aids...

 

Interesting info, thanks. Looks like this really was a bit of a setup. Still, one needs to question whether killing 15 people was really in relation to it.

 

Our current government is full of r****ds, I agree with that (especially Liberman). But the other option was even worse believe me....

 

Lost in all this Flotilla distraction is the real news:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137760

 

I believe that. I think those that would deny that the humanitarian aid channels are abused to smuggle weapons are disingenuous.

 

No. Apparently not. Avigdor Lieberman is an odd bird in Israeli politics because he is

1. Russian, and appeals to the 1 Million of the electorate who feel disenfranchised here. Russians are treated very poorly in general and make up a large part of the army. No surprise that there is resentment.
2. Secular, and champions things like civil marriage (which does not exist here) which makes him popular with those that feel the religious have too much power.
3. Authoritarian and unapologetically racist, whether it is African refugees or Arabs, his rhetoric puts him in the company of the David Dukes, Nick Griffins and Jean-Marie Lepens of the world.


As for the fiasco with the flotilla...I don't trust either story 100%.

Israel had no business boarding ships in international water, period. BBC says that the commandos were armed with anti-riot gear and sidearms only as a last resort, and used them only after one of theirs was severely injured and they were being shot at.

EDIT: I didn't read Barak's post. Seems it was in Israeli waters.

Either way, this was stupid for Israel to do. The blockade on Gaza is dumb enough and the political fallout is gonna be awful, no matter what we find out later to be the facts. I was planning a trip to Turkey this summer (we were talking getting married there). That's definitely on hold now.

 

Because someone flagged this video on youtube as abusive (someone who doesn't want the truth to be seen).

Here is another link to this video on IDF page:
http://dover.idf.il/IDF/News_Channels/today/10/05/3102.htm

 

If it was going to Gaza, how was it in Israeli waters?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

"It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters."



Don't know why they didn't board during the daytime, it would have been safer for all parties involved. Plus any video evidence would have been clearer to look at, hate night vision videos, can't make out crap.

 

True about the daytime thing...they were probably concerned about any video being used for PR purposes against them, but quite clearly, it couldn't be much worse in that respect for them than it is now.

 

I read that the activists side had actually altered/delayed their original course in an attempt to arrive at Gaza during the morning daylight. Looks like the IDF figured out and preempted that plan

 

I understand your point, but when basically one of the most advanced and powerful military forces on earth decides to overtake some humanitarian ships and kills 15 people in the process, then it is really difficult to argue that there is another side to this story. I seriously have no idea who is making these decisions in Israel, it is terrible, terrible PR and provides yet more anti-Israeli fodder to the rest of the world. It is no longer just the Arabs who portray the Israelis as a bunch of bloodthirsty monsters any longer, that image has become a popular stereotype around the world (have you traveled to Europe or Latin America recently?), and in some circles in the U.S. as well.

No one sympathizes with the IDF in this scenario, and frankly they botched this thing so badly that they deserve all the bad press they are getting right now. What is terrifying is I seriously do not think the right-wing zealots in power in Israel right now even care about the country's image, they are completely oblivious to the long-term consequences of their actions, it is hubris of the type I have not seen in history of the Jewish state.

 

Guys as you can understand from my nickname i'm from Turkey and it's getting intresting here, peoples are VERY frusturated after the attack by Israeli soldiers.

First of all I want to give you information about the aid ships. The aid ship thing organizated by a charity organization in Turkey called '' IHH''. We can call them islamic but this not means that they're like al-quaeda or hamas supporters, not even close to that. To make sure that they're not trying to make it an islamic show this organization made a statement last week which explained that there will be christians form usa-spain-france-greece, jewish people and even atheist's to make sure the global media not to label them as an islamic movement. Also there is a Israeli parlement member and a Jewish religious leader in those ships. They are 700 people from 30 countries and different religions, so claiming that they had another missions than helping gaza is a big lie.

The attack occured at internation waters and Israel Defence Ministery accepted it, this is a big violation of international laws. You can even declare a war because of that violation, but surely nobody wants that.

 

The belief is that no matter what they do the majority of the world will hate them, no matter what. My mother just returned from a detailed trip to Israel/Palestine that was built around meeting all sorts of people from all walks of life and according to her, that was the nearly universal opinion among the Israelis. It is the Masada mindset.