Two weird misconceptions about Bosh and NBA player acquisition

You know Bima, I agree with you here, I actually think they will be leaving themselves some outs for the teams that are already over, a chance to get under it over time etc.

But, I also believe they will try to stop those teams from staying over it by putting some incentives in place to get down to the cap ASAP.

Either way, I get labled as not wanting Bosh, and that is simply not true, I love his game, I just want to take a good long long as to whether he really makes the team a contender.....or not.

DD

 

Why do you say that?

Chicago could conceivably offer Toronto three (3) future first round picks, the draft rights to Omer Asik (one of the best young players in Europe), and a $16.57M trade exception that would give the Raptors supreme trade flexibility for the next year.

If I'm Bryan Colangelo, I would be pretty happy with that haul (assuming that Chicago would even offer that much in a sign-and-trade deal, especially when they have the cap room to sign Bosh outright). The Rockets would need to up the ante if that package was ever offered by the Bulls.

Agreed. But I do think that Chris Bosh is "worth" the max. Players who average a legit 20 ppg and 10 rpg AND play good defense are very rare.

And before anyone makes a comment, Chris Bosh IS a good defender. He's mobile, athletic and capable of defending the pick-and-roll at the top of the key (a la Chuck Hayes). He's just stuck on what might be the worst defensive team in NBA history from a personnel standpoint. Toronto's starting lineup, besides Bosh, features Jose Calderon, a 19-year-old kid (Demar DeRozan), Hedo Turkoglu and Andrea Bargnani. You could put Bill freakin' Russell in that lineup and he would look pedestrian on defense.

Unlike with scoring (where a guy like Aaron Brooks or Luis Scola can put up somewhat inflated stats in the absense of the team's best offensive option), a player's defense is HURT when he cannot play with other good defenders. Conversely, if a player is inherently a good defender, his defense will tend to IMPROVE when playing with other good defenders. Just look at what he did in the Olympics. Coach K said that Bosh was Team USA's best defensive big, and Bosh played over other players BECAUSE of his defense.

 

Gotta have 2 max players to win these days. Period.

Add that with Martin, Ariza and potentially Lowry and Scola equals great success!!

Brooks is on the way out in this scenario. Draft a big and sign a PG.

 

LOL - you do not get rid of Brooks, his production at his low end contract is off the charts.

Get rid of Battier or Trevor first as they are redundant.....no need to rob Peter to pay Paul.

DD

 

I've been on Brooks' bandwagon since draft night. I was one of the few that was elated with the pick but you have to give up talent to acquire talent.

It's just like giving up Landry for Martin.

Lowry is much better on D. I just don't see us being legitimate title contenders with a Brooks/Martin back court.

Do you remember the last game of the season ? I had the joy of watching Collison light us up..

 

Hey, Bosh could sign with Chicago outright if He wanted too. The sign and trade wouldn't have to include Deng but Hinrich instead.

It's all up to Bosh but If you give him the choice of either Chicago with Rose and Noah for the max or Houston with Yao (if Healthy ) and Martin (if Healthy ) for a little less than max you'll been disappointed.

 

Ahhh I see what you are saying... I forgot Chi-town had that much cap space to work with. I was under the impression Toronto could give him the most money, therefore requiring him to set up a sign and trade to go elsewhere and make that same money.

 

Your impression is right. If I'm not mistaken, Bosh can't get the 7th yr if he signs with Chicago straight up.

 

Giving up Lowry is easier than giving up Brooks.....Landry was not a starter, and thus had less of an impact on the game.

Same for Brooks v. Lowry...give up the backup.

And I don't make snap judgements based upon one matchup.

DD

 

Bosh deserves a max, but he is not as good as he is perceived. Look at the Toronto record, he hasn't been able to lead the team the way LBJ or Wade has. In addition, he is not a good team leader either.

 

Exactly, which is why I would think long and hard about giving him the max.....

DD

 

We had the flexibility to put Scola, Battier, Brooks, Landry, Lowry, & Artest around two max players in Yao and T-Mac. Presumably, Bosh would be our only max player in the 2011-2012 season. So if you don't want Bosh because he overshadows your favorite player, don't start hand-wringing about "flexibility." Just say what you mean.

 

I am saying it.....are you comprehending it?

It has nothing to do with FAVORITE player, it has everything to do with trying to win a championship and being able to put quality pieces around our max players.

Personally, I think Bosh is like Rudy Gay, a stats warrior who is not really all that much of a winner...sort of like Pau Gasol was....

You have to pair them with a great creator for them to be successful, they are both Robin's ....and not a Batman.

DD

 

Pau Gasol will be making $18 million at the age of 30($20 mil at 33). Bosh won't even be making that much next year.

Or do the Lakers not have enough "flexibility" for you?

 

and that was ONE HELL of a championship parad... oh wait...

 

The Lakers are over the cap and their owner has shown a propensity to be over the cap...and....

AND

They have a Batman in Kobe...who is ours?

DD

 

Well since we don't have a Batman, what do you propose we do? Who should we go after?

 

This is what i'm saying. Even when you look at a budget wary team like the spurs, they have duncan making max with manu and parker making like 10m per. Like You have said, I like Bosh game and would declare him the guy to build around, but Yao would have to be knocked down to the 10m range. truthfully, I'm not comfortable with him making that much because the amount of games he misses every year. For the most part, you have to pay to win. You can get talent by being on the other end of that 25% and getting the higher salaried players, but there has to be a budget. I'm just not convinced adding bocs and the money he will command will not have a cost cutting on the other end.

 

This is you best post ever :grin: . Its also the reason why alot of this makes 0 sense. You have to have batman. Just because he gets paid like batman, doesn't mean he's batman. If you don't have batman, you better have 5 cato's and robins. You salary should also justify having those type of players also.

 

We'll be over the luxury tax next year.

And honestly, we're going off-topic now. It doesn't matter whether we have a Batman; you admit yourself that Bosh will be paid "Robin" money, just like an older and arguably worse Pau Gasol is.