im not sure either, but thats who is under contract for next year. im sure we will add two more guards, but for now that is our team.
Look I don't want Wang Zhi Zhi on the Rockets too, but the guy is working hard to improve his game and at least he showed desire to improve. Also, if Jason Collier has place on the Rockets, then the same goes for Wang. He's a better center than Collier.
first of all i have to say that this trade will never be discussed by the mavs or the rockets. after that is said, i still think that this trade we get ripped off of. abdul-wahad is not a great player, and he has a giant contract. defensively he is a sound player, however, he cant score and the points he stops from being scored will come back to us due to him being completely unable to score. he did not even make the mavs playoff roster last year, behind johnny newman. honestly, he has no place on our team. moochie is right now a better player then avery johnson despite the contract. johnson is nothing anymore. he was a good player but is now not much. as for him being steves mentor, i dont think steve would listen and i agree with haven. as for wang, yes he is a good shoooter and yes he would help ming. but that would leave us stuck with four centers. cato, wang, ming, collier. wang needs a new contract and that would be a lot of time to divide. none of them would be that effective to to no playing time. you say kt needs to be resigned or he will walk. i agree. however, im guessing we could trade kt and get more. he is a reliable backup power forward and could even be a starter for some eastern conference teams (new orleans (pj brown), washington (popeye jones), orlando (horace grant)). the future number one...you dont know how good that will be. that is very valuable. rice gives us depth at sf and also gives us cap room in two years. i do not see this trade happening. true, but collier is ours because he has a contract. once that contract expires he is gone. i doubt the team would let him become a 7 foot matt maloney.
I found it interesting that Mr. "EPITOME of leadership" was on the IR come the postseason. This trade, for the Rockets, would be the equivalent of Denver giving Nick Van Exel and Raef Lafrentz for Juwan Howard. That bad. Like haven said, Avery's not the only leader in the NBA. If we're that desperate for one, we can do like the Lakers did two years ago and bring someone like Brian Shaw out of retirement. Wahad's not close to as good as Bowen on the defensive end. If he were, he would be playing the role of "defensive stopper" for the Mavs instead of Greg Buckner. Who cares what Kobe's numbers are? He's that good. If you actually watch the Spurs-Lakers series, Bowen did as good a job in man to man defense against Bryant than anyone I've seen in the last three years. Often, he anticipated Kobe's moves, had a hand right in his face, and did everything right. Kobe just hit the shots. It's why he's the best player in the game. Wahad's no better than a Greg Buckner or any other dime a dozen defensive-minded swingman that is available in free agency for near the minimum. And his contract is worse than Glen Rice. Wang could be good, but all he's shown so far as a nice touch from the perimeter. He's probably better than Cato, but that's not saying much. He's definitely not worth Kenny Thomas, a young 15 and 7 power forward. If you want, post this trade on mavtalk.com... if there's one Dallas fan not screaming for joy with this trade, I would be utterly shocked.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to start Brown if Francis gets hurt, and then have Maddox coming right off the bench. I agree KT should be traded, but we need Mooch in case anything happens. But a SG for KT would be our best bet.
How about no trades at all. I cannot see us trading KT for a sg when Torres is on the team and Francis is available to play sg. In fact so is Rice and Boki. Of the 12 man active roster, there should be the following five guards: Francis, Mobley, Moochie, Torres and Brown. (When you all get a chance name three better guard rotations in the league.) For the long haul and to protect against injuries, Francis and Mobes should play no more that 30 min per game. The backup sg could go like this: Pg 48 min: Francis 24 min Moochiie 16 min and Brown 8mins Sg 48 mn: Mobley 30ins Francis 6 mins and Torres 12 mins If Torres is playing well then Brown would lose minutes and vice versa. I am proposing this because Francis should play some sg and be freed up of some of the pg duties. Second, Brown is going to be in a position to demand minutes because of his ability to keep the uptemp pressure both defensively and offensively. His play in the summer league is not a fluke. This scenario is well within our grasp and I should remind folks that Torres will do even better in an uptempo game. I cannot therefore see the need to trade KT to get a backup sg. It is no wonder that Chad Ford said the team is all set.
First of all, I agree completely on DearRock's thoery. The only problem is, there's no way it will ever happen. I would like it if Francis and Mobes played 30 minutes a night, but it's not happening, and we all know it. Now, The Cat. First of all, please name me some of these defensive minded SG's we can just pickup for cheap. It's to my understanding that Shandon has a 6 year contract, Wahad has 4 more years on a huge contract, Bowen signed a 3-year contract for around 16M I believe, and Doug Christie makes a lot fo money, forget the fact that Sacramento would never trade him. Tell me, is there anyone else as good as these guys for cheap. Because I support the Rockets, just like you, but can't think of anyone. I do think this team is in DIRE need of such a player. Because Kobe and T-Mac will pop us for 40 points every single game in the playoffs. Also, Wang Zhi Zhi is not worth "a young 15 and 7 PF"? KT is never going to improve on thsoe numbers, and we all know it. It's beyond him. The best I can see him do? He gets 35 minutes a night on another bad team and hits 16 and 8. It's not like he's a young Rasheed Wallace with his 15 and 7. He had his career year. On the other hand, Wang Zhi Zhi already showed he can shoot, and he's damn good at it too. What does he do this summer? he goes and works mercilessly on his defense and rebounding. At 7'1, he has the tools to be a very very good C if his defense and rebounding becomes average. Because his scoring is great. But KT? He doesn't have the physical abilities to excel as a starter. He can be a Corliss Williamson type. Backup both F spots and be the 6th man. Be fair. We'd rather have Zhi Zhi than KT. We're going to have to trade KT soon ANYWAY. We'd fetch more for Zhi Zhi in a trade. About the leadership thing, I kinda agree. We COULD pick someone up for cheap, but really, who better than Avery Johnson? I guess you could say he's the best of the old, mentor, leader type player. Why wouldn't Steve listen to him? Does anyone get any louder? I really think there's no one Steve can learn from better. Because this guy will MAKE SURE Steve learns. Oh, about Avery being on the IR in postseason. Well, let's just say we're not in the postseason. Then let's say we don't have NVE as our backup PG. Then let's say our starting PG needs the veteran mroe than Steve Nash and Micheal Finley do.
Tierre is better than Tito. Just because Tito is 6'4 doesn't mean he's better. Everyone thinks due to his height he'll be good. Honestly for a 3rd string PG it doesn't matter that much because they'll probably be on the IR or be a cheerleader like Mateen Cleaves. What I do think we should do is trade Moochie for a back-up SG. Moochie is a good player and could start on some teams, but he is getting paid way too much for a back-up. Also this 3 guard line-up Rudy has been going overboard with. Maybe if Moochie is gone, he'll stop... I'd rather Tierre be here than Tito, but as long as Moochie is here, it's pretty irrelevant. "Second, Brown is going to be in a position to demand minutes because of his ability to keep the uptemp pressure both defensively and offensively. His play in the summer league is not a fluke. " Exactly. Tierre is trying to prove he can score, but Rudy needs to tell him what he wants to see. This reminds me of last year where Sean Colson was trying to prove he can score (although in a much worse manner) and then he ended up cut anyways. Tierre didn't do this during the regular season. He always pushed the tempo and made great passes. He has just as good handles as Tito and is definitely a better scorer. So the other points would be potential, style of play, and passing. You'd say Tito has more potential because he's a rookie, but who really knows who has more potential? Yeah if Tito gets a jumpshot and 3point range he'll be great....right....How many times have we heard that? Tierre already can score, it's not a fluke. Style of play: They both have similar styles of play even if Tierre is playing differently right now. They both look to pass first and push it inside and down court. They both make good passes and are excellent handlers. Passing: Tito maybe considered a better passer, but I think as of now Tierre got more assists and this is while he's trying to prove he can score. Weaknesses:Turnovers, both of them need to cut down on them. Tito needs to have more versatile ways of scoring other than a shaky mid-range j, floater, and no range further out. Tierre seems to have the spin moves and inside moves down and his jumper isn't too shabby, so mainly his weakness would be decision-making which comes with time. Ok, so if we're keeping Mooch it doesn't matter really. However, honestly I'd rather have Tierre than Mooch. We are really empty at the back-up 2 and for Mooch we could get someone I'm sure. Tierre has some things to learn, but I really liked how he RAN the offense last year. He actually DID run the offense unlike someone... yeah and: "I we can get a deal like Wahad, Avery Johnson and Wang Zhi Zhi for Mooch, KT, Rice and a future first...I'd be ecstatic." Avery is just about done, KT is way way better than Wang and Wahad????WHY WHY WHY??? Dumb deal, sorry...We do need to trade Kenny if we can for another (in this order) 5,2,3... It's obvious Collier flat-out sucks...seriously, he doesn't belong...That means we got Cato & Ming, so we need a 3rd center. If we traded Mooch for another SG that'd be nice but I'd doubt it actually happen. Rice will be gone soon(Is it one more season?), so I don't think we should trade KT for a 3 when we'll have extra money then(I think???) to pursure a FA...plus Nachbar will hopefully be looking good, but it'd be nice to have another back-up than Morris unless someone wakes him up and sparks some confidence...
Sane: I haven't looked at the entire free agent list yet, and I'm too tired to now-- I've been gone all day. I'll see how many defensive minded players are available tomorrow. I do know, though, that Greg Buckner is a free agent, and he performs the exact same role as Wahad. In fact, since he plays the same positions as Wahad and was on the same team and got the playing time, it should tell you which is better. I also know that Bryon Russell could be had for the 4.5, and he actually has a little bit of an offensive game in addition to defense. And if we really need a veteran PG to serve as an influence for Francis, why not bring in Terry Porter instead of trading for Avery Johnson? Porter is a good leader, has a ring, and has valuable close game and playoff experience. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on KT. I know he's not a Rasheed Wallace... but I think he will consistently be a good player. I don't think last year was a "career year". He may not always get those minutes, but if you give him starter's minutes, I think he's always going to be that kind of a player with solid production. If Wang can get to average on the defensive and rebounding fronts, he would be good... but that is a lot to assume. You may be right on the team needs, but you are overvaluing their worth. They're more available than you think. Buckner is a better defender than Wahad, with more quickness... and can probably be had at about four million cheaper. Avery is a good leader, but shouldn't cost much to get him on this team. If he does, you might as well go to Terry Porter, who can do much of the same role at a cheaper price.
Sane, it is all well and good to look at a team with 3 very good pf's, like ours, and call KT a backup at best even comparing him to Corliss. If you do a quick look around the NBA, you will see alot of teams that would be happy to have KT as a starter. Look at PJ Brown numbers. Who is the wolves PF? The Magic's? Have you compared his numbers to Antonio Davis, an unquestioned starter? I cannot let you get away with not respecting my boy. Based on superficial logic it would seem that he should be traded but it is the deep down logic that has prevented him from being traded so far. Logic like his play and his attitude and overall what he means to the team.
Sane, I too seriously doubt Mobes and Francis will not only play 30 min per game. But why not? Well I know that both would want to play more. Also there is the thought that the team cannot dominate without those two. This situation is different. We do have the best collection of point guards in the league. Last year Steve averaged 41 min per game and Kidd 37, while Kidd had a no name backup and less injuries. If you say Steve had to play more because some many people were out, then now that everybody is back then he shoudl play less. I would think if Moochie played on the nets, Kidd's average would go down even further. I think so because of how good Moochie is and Scott's minute management style. It is no fluke that the nets had the longest rotation in the league. To have a long rotation you must have the talent, of course, and the coaching philosophy. When you consider how damaging a healthy and fresh Francis is to a defense, we owe it to ourselves to responsibly utilize this resource. My theme song for next year is: "Who let the dogs out? " Could you imagine after the first eighteen minutes of the game, after Francis and Moochie have pounded the uptempo, multiple pick and roll sets and pressure defense on the opposition, you get to unleash a fresh Brown for more of the same for the last six minutes of the half? How do you think we are likely to end the half? How do you think that would affect Francis' ability to dominate in the fourth? Tell me how Fisher and company are going to feel.
We need height in our back court....we are all midgets, except Torres and he is streaky at best...some how we have to make a move for a 6'5" type player.........if that means trading brown, torres or even moochie, then it has to be done....
