Your pulse for this team and the direction they've been moving in is severely lacking if you really believe those last two statements. In fact, I almost started hyperventilating when I read this -- you are that wrong. JVG's bedrock principle on offense was basically "PnR and feed the big man constantly". It was by no coincidence that Yao had career scoring years under JVG due to all the touches he got (and partially, due to how teams hadn't figured out how to 'front' him yet). Between all the Yao post-up's and PnR's involving Yao, teams started realized that doubling Yao was all-but-inevitable. For this reason, having knockdown shooters was essential. JVG's "breed" were the defensive-oriented, high basketball IQ, stationary shooters that could take advantage of such looks -- that's why you saw all those guys like David Wesley, Rick Brunson, Keith Bogans, etc. turned Rafer, Head, Battier and Chuck (the exception on the shooter part, true on everything else). Those players were all JVG-molded players. Each move to acquire those guys made by CD had JVG's fingerprints all over them. Three first-round exits later, Morey and Rockets brass had seen enough of that approach. Enter: Rick Adelman and his motion, read-and-react offense. By this time, it was becoming increasingly obvious that our philosophy needed changed due to us being unable to rely on Yao and McGrady to be healthy. What good is system of role player built to complement two superstars going to be if those superstars can't stay on the court? We needed a talent and roster overhaul. Morey and Adelman's new approach centered around finding dynamic scorers and young, low-risk talent that carried upside. This movement began with Morey's heists of Scola, Brooks and Landry. Continued with the good idea (in theory) of trading Juwan and his flat-jumper for Mike James. When that idea didn't work out, Morey cut his losses by flipping James for Bobby Jackson and his expiring contract. The same expiring contract that landed us Ron Artest, whom Adelman just so happened to coach previously. Afterwards, the 'weeding out' of the JVG players continued with Chuck being demoted to a situational player, Head being cut and Rafer traded for Kyle Lowry -- a player that embodies the aforementioned 'new philosophy' of Morey/Adelman. The only role player holdover from those JVG teams is obviously Battier, a player that ANY coach would love to have due to his status as the league's best one-on-one defender. Summer of '09, this strategy continued with adding Andersen, Chase and Taylor -- all low-risk/high upside players that stand a chance to enter the rotation immediately. The point is the style difference and overall talent disparity between the CD/JVG vs. Morey/Adelman teams is obvious. It's staring you right in the face. If you can't see that, I can't help you. As for our disagreements about Chuck -- I really wish every moment of every game for the past 3-4 years or so was archived so I could go back and count the number of times JVG ran a McGrady/Hayes PnR just so I could get a barometer of what you're talking about. I don't recall it happening much, if not....ever. Plus, paragraph #1 you talk about how Adelman seemingly never PnR's yet you also state that when he does, Brooks can't find him??
WHy are people so against this? It for a guy with length, a little finishing ability, and little shot blocking to be the last guy off the bench. Inviting to training camp is a fine idea.
Possibly. Although, Battier is the only JVG holdover that you ever hear Morey consistently praising in the media. Part of me thinks that respect is genuine. Part of me thinks he might sell high if he concludes that we don't have much to play for or thinks he's about to enter a decline and that a team like Portland (that's wanted Battier for 2+ years now) might be willing to pay a premium for him. It will be interesting to follow. I've always been a Battier fan but i'm open to whatever.
Don't you know if you type your opinions on this discussion forum you will be lynched? You can only state cold, hard facts (excuses) here. I think we should even take it one level higher. Just so nobody accidentally types an opinion we should just post stats. Yeah, that would make this place really exciting!!!!
baller4life, as a gm, you want to keep the stock of a player as high as possible. I mean, if you torpedo a value, what can you get for a player.Personally, I think battier value across the league isn't as high as many on this board thinks. Portland may want battier, but they're not giving up the ship like most think. Without battier this,that team is a contender already. Now if they just want to cleanup their roster,that's one thing, but some of these board scenerio's are crazy.I would just take roster flexibility or talent.Sometimes just getting fair is enough vs trying to rob.
Right. But if Morey is able to engage in legit discussions (or hell, even plant smokescreens) about us being in talks with a team like Portland for Fernandez + whatever, that's either fair or above average return on your investment. Plus, it's not like Portland is the only team that wants Battier. If other teams that want him see those types of going rates they'll feel inclined to try to beat those offers. So the point is I still think he has plenty of value to contending teams. The question is: do we keep him or do we try to move him in the near future?
Stromile Swift back? This is funny. This guy is just not mentally strong enough to play a PF or C position. He can occasionally do something to show he could be a good NBA player, but not in every game.
Baller4life, battier makes roughly 7m.Most teams are over the cap so lets use the 25% rule +/-.List the contenders and the player the rockets can get for shane. Your window is from 5.25 to 8.75m.
I think if Portland had offered up Fernandez Battier would have been on the Blazers already. People are overestimating Shane's trade value to the utmost extent. Sure contenders want Shane, but they want him on the cheap, not for 7m. Let alone giving up one of your young exciting players with potentials of becoming a star.
That is because he is not a "JVG Holdover." He is the type of player Van Gundy loves, but it was well documented that this was Morey's trade: When Morey came to the Rockets, a huge chunk of the team’s allotted payroll — the N.B.A. caps payrolls and taxes teams that exceed them — was committed, for many years to come, to two superstars: Tracy *McGrady and Yao Ming. Morey had to find ways to improve the Rockets without spending money. “We couldn’t afford another superstar,” he says, “so we went looking for nonsuperstars that we thought were undervalued.” He went looking, essentially, for underpaid players. “That’s the scarce resource in the N.B.A.,” he says. “Not the superstar but the undervalued player.” Sifting the population of midlevel N.B.A. players, he came up with a list of 15, near the top of which was the Memphis Grizzlies’ forward Shane Battier. This perplexed even the man who hired Morey to rethink basketball. “All I knew was Shane’s stats,” Alexander says, “and obviously they weren’t great. He had to sell me. It was hard for me to see it.” This doesn't sound at all like your portrait of Van Gundy instructing Morey to seek out "Jeff Van Gundy Type Players." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2
So true. If they offered outlaw and the rights to koppen, I would do it. If you look at the contenders, other than portland, none have the good young talent people speak ofOrlando coughed up lee to get carter, but what other contenders want battier?.
All you need to do is look at the stats. An undersized PF in the NBA rarely shoots 57% from the floor unless he is able to create your own shot OR he has a good assist man... I also don't understand your assessment of Van Gundy being a one-dimensional coach and force-feeding Yao. Why wouldn't you force-feed one of the most dominant post scorers in the league? If he was force-feeding a weaker post player, you would have an argument. Compare that to Rick Adelman who does that kind of stuff. He puts players in a position where they sink or swim. He puts players into situations and spots on the floor where they can't be effective. The players that are effective at those spots, get the playing time.
I would assume those teams want Battier as a starter just because he's not that much a scoring threat to come off the bench. Let's take a look at whom those contenders have on the starting SF position. Cavaliers: Lebron Magic: Lewis Celtics: Pierce Wizards: Butler 76ers: Iggy Hawks: Josh Smith/Marvin Williams Raptors: Hedo Lakers: Ron Spurs: Jefferson Nuggets: Carmelo Mavericks: Marion Jazz: AK47 Suns: Hill Hornets: Posey Blazers: Batum Not easy to sell Battier high.
