The fact that you made this argument with the tag Super Von tells me everything I need to know. And if TMac has been MIA for years, it what year did Von become Super? But to get to what you said. Most of what you are stating is based on last year's terrible performance. Regarding your fourth quarter comment, tell me how many players beyond the ones that I anticipate coming out of your mouth (LeBron, Kobe and DWade) are going to carry a team both offensively and defensively with no drop off in an entire NBA game/series? This year even LeBron had moments of poor productions as he averaged 30+ against the Magic. TMac shot nothing but jumpers (huh) but still put up decent assist numbers and was still respected even on one leg until he finally sat out. Even Morey said that the worst injuries to have as a player involve your feet or knees. For me it's not about blindly following TMAC, it's about questioning this reoccurring short term memory that is found all across this board. In the years he has been here, I don't understand how one season outweighs the overall body of work as a Rocket. I can care less about any other place he has been. For the other years, just by being on the court he has helped Yao's game more than other Rocket with Scola being a close second. No one got the ball better to Yao. No one on this team including Artest made the other team leave its double team on Yao more than TMAC. So say he shot a lot of jump shots if you want, but tell me if YOU could defend, distribute and score at an NBA level better? Ok, and for those who will say he hasn't won a ring, well no one on this team has won a championship as a Rocket!!! As I have said before, advancing to the second didn't bring a championship parade to Main St!!!
I've seen you post this trade idea numerous times, and it's just as terrible now as it was the first time. If I'm the Rockets, I'm much better off gambling on T-Mac and his expiring contract than taking a player who was forced to retire due to a heart condition and a scrub.
I'd take that deal in a heart beat. The Cat back in Houston, Oh Yea! Tracy is to winning, the same as A.I. is to winning. Notice nobody was willing to take on A.I. If Tracy doesn't 180 degree turnaround he's gonna be in the same boat. Not much Tracy love for me.
I hope R2K isn't going to have to start deleting DoD's posts if he's going to turn every thread into a war with DD
80% of Mobley'c contract is covered by an insurance company. The size of McGrady's contract makes him difficult to move. Breaking it down into multiple expirings (e.g Mobley + Harrington) allows the Rockets easier time to work a trade for long term assets. Rockets would get under LT if they dealt McGrady to NY. An added bonus would be if McGrady got healthy he could potentially ruin the Knicks draft pick which is owned by the Jazz.
This is a pro league. And the only criteria needed to judge a player is playoff success. Tracy has 0 playoff success. That's more than enough to mark him as a loser. No excuse, case closed.
Don't worry DcProwler, those T-Mac pics in Chicago are photoshopped. In fact, his whole body is still in Toronto catching up to that Jamario Moon dunk. Oh yeah, and T-Mac was the one that killed Michael Jackson. And the Taco Bell dog too.
Well, Orlando offered Tmac a max contract at the time, and to be able to play along with the best all around wing player at the time (Grant Hill pre-injury) and to play in your hometown instead of Toronto Canada, who wouldn't make that jump?? Besides, he was never going to get that type of $ in Toronto, and would never have gotten endorsements/shoe deal that he got as after becoming a superstar in Orlando. You and I both agree that there was no way he could've predicted Grant Hill's injury would be career changing and he would only have 47 games to play with him. What risk did Tmac really take?? The Raptors weren't exactly promising themselves?? They were in a win now type of mode. They did have good veterans in Antonio Davis, Kevin Willis, and Charles Oakley (all productive) but they were getting really old. Davis was already 32, Willis was 38, and Oakley was 37. These were their last productive seasons. What happened after 2001 to Toronto? They lost Oakley, and Davis and Willis became a year older, and VC started having injury problems...they lost in the 1st round after going 42-40. Orlando actually had a better regular season than them. Plus, Tmac and Vince Carter were essentially the same player, with Tmac being the better defender and playmaker. Carter at the time was the better scorer. Tmac was basically restricted to being the point forward, without really given a chance to prove himself as a scorer (became better than Carter here) Grant Hill was capable of being the point forward, and would allow Tmac to play off the ball to score, and if needed, Hill could isolate, or Tmac could isolate, when Hill was out of the game. You risk getting injured, and losing $30-40 million over your career if you turn down a max contract when you were barely making $1 million per year in Toronto. Now thats a risk in my opinion. Plus, he thought he and Grant Hill would be playing together for 7 years, not 47 games. That was out of his control. Also, as far as AI's teammates having less success after him, Deke was already 34 years old. He was gradually declining. He became a bench player 2 seasons later. He was still very productive in his 2 seasons in Philly. Tyronne Hill was 32 years old in the 2001 season and only played a handful of games after the 2001 season. But he was productive in 2001. Aaron McKie played with AI until the 2004-05 season, til age 32, where he averaged 2.2 ppg in 68 games. He declined with age, not because he left AI. Eric Snow played with AI til 2004. He is one guy that played better with AI, since he could run the point guard duties. But when he was traded to cleveland, he wasn't a starter his 1st season. Then he started his 2nd season, but with Lebron, he's kind of useless, since Lebron handles the ball 90% of the time...he needs a point guard who can spread the floor with his shot...Eric Snow can't do that. Raja Bell did fine without AI. He is still productive today, 8 years later. Also compare the big men AI and Vince Carter had to Tracy McGRady in 2001: AI had: Mutombo, Tyronne Hill, Matt Geiger (could score off the bench) http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2001.html VC had: Antonio Davis, Kevin Willis, Charles Oakley http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2001.html Tmac had: Bo Outlaw (6'8 210 lbs.) as his starting power forward who averaged 1.7 bpg and 7.7 rpg and then himself 1.5 bpg and 7.5 rpg as a shooting guard! http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2001.html I mean, what more could he do? AI and VC had guys to rebound and block shots for them. In basketball, rebounding and interior defense is CRITICAL...you DON"T WIN WITHOUT IT. Its amazing Tmac led those teams to the playoffs in the 1st place. It was just him, a couple of 3 piont shooters, and a stiff at center. All AI and VC had to worry about was scoring and making plays. Tmac had to score, make plays, rebound, block shots, and play defense on the perimeter. If AI got burned on the perimeter...Deke was there for a block or change the shot. If VC got burned, he had Antonio Davis and Kevin Willis who could block shots, and Oakley ready to give a hard foul. Tmac couldn't get burned, otherwise John Amechi, Michale Doleac, or Don Ried would get dunked on, or Bo Outlaw might get a block, but he's only 6'8, 210 lbs...the same size as Tmac, their shooting guard. I'm not taking anything away from AI and VC...they had good seasons, and had a classic playoff battle. BUT, they didn't have to do nearly as much as TMac did with Orlando. I don't know how much better Tmac could lead, considering he had no rebounding and no interior presence. Even Lebron, AI, VC, Dwade, and Kobe(in 05 to 07) have always had atleast that much...Tmac didn't in Orlando.
You act like Toronto is some crap town, its definitely more lively than Orlando. It was good enough for his cousin. And for the "hometown" theory. Why did the hometown fans want him to leave? why did he want to leave? For example, Steve Francis played for Houston, which was not his hometown, but he really loved the city and the fans, he never wanted to leave. Orlando fans (note the kid with the sign) <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T-Ekfbt8aew&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T-Ekfbt8aew&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Are you: A) a historian B) a researcher C) Just have really good memory D) All of the above Imprssive post bro.
R2K's fingers would be sore if he tried. Can't stop DD from posting! DD writes what flows in his mind, you gotta respect that <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ii_nmVkzDGM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ii_nmVkzDGM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
yes those are real orlando magic fans who live in orlando and follow the team and pay for tickets. I didn't raid Lucas Arts studio and used JarJar binks technology to make those fans up. this reminds me of when I saw Pippen back at compaq center as a Blazer, the Rockets fans were passionately booing him. I even bought near courtside seats just to boo Pippen! side note: people in Houston cheered Steve when he comes back to Houston in any uniform. Something stats and what if scenarios can't produce... respect and love from the fans
Just because I like Von Wafer doesnt mean everything I said about Tracy is true. I stopped reading your post after the first line.
I've never been to Toronto myself, but I always heard ppl on the radio saying NBA players don't like living in Canada...I don't know what the reason is (maybe the cold weather, the $ value, etc.) I heard Toronto is nice, but I think anybody would prefer to play in their hometown...in nice, sunny florida. plus Orlando is only a few hours away from Miami which is the place to be from what I hear (need to go there as well) Well, Tmac had enough of their management, and after they told him to be a circus act to sell tickets, while they aim to get the #1 draft pick, I think he realized that he wasn't going to be this talented forever...he wanted to win. Can't blame him for that...the Orlando fans booing him? well, I guess they thought like many fans over here, who blame EVERYTHING on him. He can get a little bit more blame in Houston, since his talent was a little bit better in Houston, but how anybody could blame him in Orlando is just beyond me...after what I posted previously. Their management was horrible...couldn't get him a big man 6'10 or taller that could rebound/block shots. Tmac was made out to look like the bad guy by Weisbrod http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQKfqfN2k7U&feature=related Just ignore what Mark Jackson says though...he's proven himself to be a basketball idiot..."When its all said and done Kobe Bryant will be the greatest basketball player ever lived" -Mark Jackson He wasn't there with Tmac, he never had a team with crap around him, and he's never had to lead a team with crap around it. That 2004 squad was HORRIBLE!! But losing 19 in a row is unacceptable by the TEAM...Tmac can't do everything for that team...Doc Rivers couldn't do anything with that squad...somebody ask him how bad that was. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2004.html But basically in that interview that explains why he wanted to leave Orlando (wanted to win, not be a circus act) and why the fans booed him (Weisbrod, a hockey GM who resigned a year later, made him look like the bad guy, selfish, doesn't practice, etc. even though he was the only one who was really capapble of scoring on that team). Also, losing doesn't help...people in Miami were ready to get rid of Dwayne Wade after they went 15-67 2 years ago. When you win...its all good, when you lose, its all on you (leader of the team). LA fans booed Kobe at the start of the 2007-08 season, when he stated that he wanted a trade, since his team couldn't get out of the 1st round...lucky for him Memphis "gave them" Pau Gasol and Bynum sort of developed. If that didn't happen, Kobe could've been traded, or he may still not have gotten out of the 1st round without a post presence to score. It happens though...its the "ups and downs" or the "roller coaster ride" of an NBA career...even Dream went through this in 1992, when ppl claimed that he was faking his injury, and the Rockets missed the playoffs. It happens to the best of them...Dream was bascially a hometown hero and it happened to him, from what I read. Tinman, you may know more about that than me.
Yep. It's amazing how much fans love you when you display a genuine passion for the game and a desire to win instead of just being talented and coasting through a career.
Paterson claimed Dream faked the injury, but the whole incident was blown out of proportion. Lots of stuff was happening at the time, including the sale of the Rockets to Les Alexander. Nobody I mean NOBODY who's a Rockets fan ever booed Hakeem when he returned to Houston. --- Paterson and Dream had their beef, but it was resolved -Dream didn't get traded and Paterson resigned him. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1993_1150656 Feb. 18, 1992 -- Fires Rockets coach Don Chaney and names Rudy Tomjanovich as interim head coach. March 23, 1992 -- Suspends center Hakeem Olajuwon without pay, claiming he has failed to play when physically able to do so. Olajuwon claims he is suffering from a hamstring injury and is unable to play, and suggests he is unsure if he wants to play for the Rockets if Patterson remains as general manager. May 20, 1992 -- Names Tomjanovich as head coach. June 24, 1992 -- Despite a chorus of boos from The Summit fans, makes the decision to draft forward Robert Horry, who goes on to become a productive forward in his rookie season. March 15, 1993 -- Olajuwon signs a four-year extension with the Rockets worth $25.4 million that places him under contract with the team through 1999. July 30, 1993 -- Rockets owner Charlie Thomas completes the sale of the team to businessman Les Alexander. Aug. 30, 1993 -- Alexander fires Patterson as Rockets general manager.
Thanks for clearing that up...but you can see how management can get ther PR division to make things out of proportion through the media...ppl believe the media too easily. Luckily, Dream found religion, and became a different person, and apologized (even though he probably didn't need to, but thats the kind of human being he was) and the sale of the ROckets to Les Alexander was big as well...we had an owner who really wanted to win. But from 88 to 92, Dream didn't have talent, he produced like crazy, yet we couldn't get out of the 1st round, and then missed the playoffs altogether in 92 The blame always goes to the best player, which was Dream, and I think it got to him slightly, especially when they made outrageous claims like him faking his injury. But once he saw that we got talent, and a new coach (Rudy T.) he really believed that we could be contenders, which we were, and he himself finsihed 2nd in MVP voting...would've gotten it if we won 63 games or tied with Pheonix that year.
