Kobe Bryant Isn't Michael Jordan, but He's At Least Clyde Drexler

Like, I was saying earlier. You don't even have to mention Michael Jordan.

Players, like Reggie Miller, Jeff Hornacek, John Stockton, and few other odd players who played in 2000s. And where still successful, even though they were clearly past their primes.

I don't know why people think athleticism is king, when a player is still not very skilled (unless it's circus tricks that don't help a team) or dumb as dirt.

 

Free throw percentage for the league has dropped a bit, from about 76.5 % in the mid seventies to about 75% last year. There are more very good foul shooters than there were then. There are also more guys who can barely hit the backboard on a good night.

Three point percentage is up, probably because people now spend so much time focusing on just the three point shot. When it first came in, the players had not grown up taking thousands of threes. Also, the attitude of most players then was that a good 15-20 footer was a better shot than a three.

The Bulls lost the game to the Celtics where Jordan got 63. Defense that gets you a win is good enough. In tight situations, they didn't put Ainge on Jordan. Instead, DJ guarded him. Did you ever watch basketball in the eighties? Do you really think the Celtics, the Sixers, the Pistons didn't play defense. One big difference is that there was an illegal D rule, and it was called pretty often. Until the late eighties, when the modern "help/rotation" defense came about, the players legitimately had to play man to man. It made a huge difference.

Midgets? Like Hakeem, Kareem, Moses? Parrish, McHale and Bird was a really small frontline, wasn't it? So was Kareem, AC Green and Worthy.

And you are right, it took Riley to teach toughness, because players like Moses Malone, Maurice Lucas, or Wes Unseld were just a bunch of softies. Give me a break.

 

Pardon. I am still reading page three; but I have enjoyed the debate.

I question at which point Lebron James will be compared to Clyde Drexler. I know Kobe Bryant is the "hot topic", because he is in the Finals. However, when you put Drexler and James' careers in perspective, and all of the team oriented arguments, I just wonder what the debate becomes. Who was a better player on the fast break? Who was a better defender? Who was the better athlete?

However, these are the "facts". (I didn't include "stats", or "finals" arguments)


Kobe Bryant

All-Star Games

1998 NBA
2000 NBA
2001 NBA
2002 NBA
2003 NBA
2004 NBA
2005 NBA
2006 NBA
2007 NBA
2008 NBA
2009 NBA

Awards

2001-02 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2006-07 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2007-08 NBA MVP
2008-09 NBA All-Star Game MVP

Honors

1996 McDonald's All American
1996-97 NBA All-Rookie (2nd)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)

MVP Award Shares

1999-00 NBA 0.002 (12)
2000-01 NBA 0.009 (9)
2001-02 NBA 0.078 (5)
2002-03 NBA 0.417 (3)
2003-04 NBA 0.172 (5)
2005-06 NBA 0.386 (4)
2006-07 NBA 0.404 (3)
2007-08 NBA 0.877 (1)
2008-09 NBA 0.577 (2)
Active 2.922 (3)
Career 2.922 (11)

Hall of Fame Probability

Active 1.000 (3)
Career 1.000 (12)


Clyde Drexler

All-Star Games

1986 NBA
1988 NBA
1989 NBA
1990 NBA
1991 NBA
1992 NBA
1993 NBA
1994 NBA
1996 NBA
1997 NBA

Honors

1982-83 NCAA AP All-America (2nd)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1990-91 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1991-92 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

MVP Award Shares

1984-85 NBA 0.001 (22)
1987-88 NBA 0.108 (5)
1989-90 NBA 0.003 (12)
1990-91 NBA 0.078 (6)
1991-92 NBA 0.584 (2)
1992-93 NBA 0.001 (10)
1994-95 NBA 0.003 (14)
Career 0.778 (37)

Hall of Fame Probability

Career 0.997 (39)


I will say that, by the "facts", Bryant is a superior player. This finals could be the defining moment of his career; or the beginning of a new dynasty "era" in Los Angeles. I apologize if this has been done before, I'm still on page three.

 

For those that say Drexler was as good defensively, why did he never make an All-D team? I understand him never getting the nod over MJ, but not even 2nd team....

 

Just explain why the leagued averaged so many more points than today, it's 110 in 1987, 97 in 1997, 93.4 in 2004 and 100 last 2 years.

 

Just proof those awards are squirrely. This is like Reggie Miller, I think, never making an All NBA First or Second team, but Vin Baker has.

Drexler is #6 all time in the NBA in steals, yet can't make an NBA All Defensive team. Yes, defense is more than just getting steals, but come on. Joe Dumars is the complete reverse of this. Drexler played the lanes more than he did man-on-man defense from what I remember.

 

I haven't read this whole thread, but if anybody doesn't think Kobe isn't better than Clyde they are as crazy as the people who used to argue that Jordan was really not that much better than Clyde. And trust me, I love Clyde and did not like Jordan. But, truth is truth.

 

There are two main factors, in my opinion. First, the change in defensive rules and officiating. The league moved from a true man to man defense, to a help/rotate soft zone defense. Officials stopped enforcing the old illegal D rules, and eventually the league just gave up on those rules. That was a fairly big factor.

Second, the three point shot killed the fast break. (Actually this works in combination with the modern soft zone. The zone makes it more likely that there will be defenders collapsed near the paint, while the three point shot makes it certain that there will be offensive players who are already pretty far back.)

 

a) Kevin Porter?? WTF?

b) Uhh, Petrovic didn't come into his own until he went to NJ

 

Yeah kobe isnt mj but he is closer to mj than he is to clyde being that he is better than clyde. Don't get me wrong clyde is up there as one of the best but kobe is a superior player compared to him and in my opinion kobe is the closest to mj

 

According to these "facts", Kobe has been the best defensive player in the league at his position 7 out of his 13 years in the league. I don't care what anyone says, Kobe has never been deserving of an all-defensive 1st team nod.

 

A) Terry Porter, sorry.

b) I figure Petrovic would stay with the team, if Lebron is traded out for Drex. Drex is shooting guard, while Lebron is a small (point) forward. Which means he probably would've still been with the Trailblazer, because I don't think they would've had another shooting guard, except 36 year old Walter Davis or moved Ainge or Terry Porter up to shooting guard.

 

You are just imagining rather than getting the fact straight.
There are mainly two reasons why 80s scored way more game.
1. Fast tempo and lots of fast break, no foul on layup (Riley invented the no layup rule in late 80s)
2. Poor D inside the arc compared to today. And zone makes it easy to hide your major weakness.

It's just so much hard for single star player to take over today since you can't ISO like MJ. You have to play against box&1

 

I'm not sure we are disagreeing so much here.

What caused the decline of the fast break? I think its mostly the combination of the three point shot which led to inside/out offenses, or slash and dish offenses. The idea now is to draw the double team, and then dish off to one of the set shooters outside the arc. Those set shooters are also natural break defenders, so you almost never see a break off an outlet pass anymore. Combine that with collapsing zone defenses, and the break is pretty much a dead letter.

And the easing up on, and finally eliminating the illegal D rules, has made the defense in the arc much more difficult. If Yao were playing under the rules in the eighties, he's be averaging 5-10 points more per night.

The other reason for the decline in scoring is the expansion of the league. That's the main reason that skills have gone down, in my opinion. While the best players may even be more skilled than they used to be, there didn't use to be even a word like "role player". The teams were better from top to bottom because the talent wasn't spread as thin. Now a good team is a superstar, a second fiddle, and some role players. That's a modern development and it has really hurt the game.

Imagine if the league went back to 16 or 20 teams. Almost every starting 5 would have 4 or 5 guys who were legitimate scoring threats. The collapsing defense just wouldn't work anymore, and scoring would go way up. Most of the defensive specialists and other one-trick ponies would find themselves out of work.

 

Thank you. Kobe is head and shoulders above Clyde, but that doesn't mean that I don't think Clyde was great. Also, there is one poster for sure on this bbs who thinks Drexler was better than Jordan. LOL. Seriously.

 

kobe's better at being an a**hole...that's something.

 

I think the Kobe Jordan comparisons are more on par than the Kobe Drexler comparisons. Drexler and Kobe-Jordan only share the position they played. Drexler was not a perimeter player. He drove the lane more and posted up more players than Kobe does. Kobe and Jordan both created shots by being able to stop and pop. As far as the defensive comparisons go, I am still unsure of why Kobe is considered a great defender. At best he is inconsistent. If he wants to play defense he can, but for the most part he is an offensive minded player.

As far as the different eras go, I will make a somewhat controversial statement about guys like Bill Russell and Wilt. They played in an era where guys were much less athletic than their peers. They were really men amongst boys. Today professional athletes have the ability to work full time on their game. Most guys playing back then had jobs during the offseason to pay the bills. That doesn't take anythign away from players of that era. I doubt that Wilt would have been able to score 100 points today, but he probably would have still been one of the best players in the league today.