It would be easier t get Odom if we had something they wanted besides the pick or Francis. They probably wouldn't want Griffin because they have brand and miles, and they wouldn't want Cat because they have Q an Corey. Cato is overpaid an we know they don't want Taylor. All of these scenerios would have been easier had we stayed at number 5. If we would have stayed at number 5 and packaged, the pick,Thomas, and Collier for Odom, all of te peple calling ing the next bust we wouldn't be worried about. I just think it would be next to impossible to get Odom without giving up Francis and or thenumber 1 plus someone.
I love Francis, but how much do you think we could get out of the Clippers for him? If we packaged Francis + 38th pick, could we get Odom + 12th + 8th? If we could get that kind of value in return, I would find that kind of tempting. We could then try to package the 8+12+15+KT to Chicago for the #2 pick (although I don't know how likely Chicago would be to take that). We could then draft both Ming and JW, AND have Odom to boot. I think that would be the only scenario where I would consider trading Francis...if we could somehow get both Odom and JW out of it without losing our #1 pick.
Like Francis and some of the scenerios, but i dont see the Rockets trading him. I mean the 8,12, and Odom is probably enough if I'm the gm or Odom and the 8th, but i highly doubt it. The thing with Odom is that he has #1 player type talent and Baylor knows this. When he's on the court, he's a very good ball player. I mean with him and that 8, you could draft a player and have Mobley guard pg's and the other guy guarding sg's while having Odom being the primary ball handler and starter on offense. His versitility is what pains Baylor and make him joyous at the same time. Steve has put up better numbers than he has, but his talent is undeniable. I don't think the Rocket will ever consider this unless the rumor about Ming draft status and Francis wanting out were true. If that was and is the case, then the string would have to be pulled, but I'm not sure that he even made those comments. Very interesting to say the least. Ming Griffin/Taylor Odom Butler Cat That would be a very interesting lineup. Odom as the trigger man of the offense . Mobley and Butler in the backcourt on D and griffin and ming down low, that would be very interesting.
hmm....Odom, Francis, and Mo. I think they would throw the best Parties. ( smoking bud and drinking beer )
I agree...I don't think the Rockets would ever trade Francis (unless Francis kind of forced it, in a TroyBarros kind of scenario). I actually don't want them to trade Francis. I just wonder what Francis' trade value really is if it actually came to that.
hp & ROCKET!!! - Do I understand you correctly? You are stating that even though Olowokandi is a Qualifying Offer FA, the Clipps can trade him (along with the unsigned rights of draft picks) on Draft Day? If this is true, then as the receiving team, the Rockets would then have to give Kandi an offer on or before June 30 (just as the Clipps would/will need to do if Kandi is not traded). Now, if both of those statements are true, then any team under the cap can make a bid for Olowokandi that the Rockets must match or beat. If this is a true sequence of events, doesn't that leave the Rockets exposed to paying more for Olowokandi than they may really want to? What if the Rockets deal the pick Krause wanted to the Clipps and he gets pissed. Unless I totally misunderstand, Krause can either outbid the Rockets for Kandi or make them pay way more than his true value to keep him? Maybe I'm missing something, but there appears to be an exposure in QO FA's on draft day. This is true even if it is the Clipps who make the qualifying offer. Other teams can still bid on Kandi.
Looks to me like the CBA is pretty clear the the Clips can't trade Kandi. Article VII, Section 8 (Trade Rules) (c) <b>A Team cannot trade any player after the NBA trade deadline occurring in the last Season of the player’s Contract,</b> or after the NBA trade deadline occurring in any Season that could be the last Season of the player’s Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or Early Termination Option It's the last year of Olowokandi's contract. It's past the NBA trade deadline. I don't see how the Clips could trade him unless they wait and trade him in a sign and trade.
aelliott, I'm not saying we should (I'm starting to change my mind about a trade w/the Clips) but couldn't they make a verbal agreement to a trade before the draft and "pick for the Clippers" - then a month later, trade the rights of the pick with cap filler for a signed Kandi and Odom?
aelliott, I think this is why I'd never be a lawyer. Even in supposedly plain language, this sort of stuff throws me. Kandi can't be traded after the trade deadline in his final year. Next year is his final year, isn't it? And the trade deadline is Feb. Whateverth. Isn't that what the clause you post references? If I'm right (and I have a suspicion I'm not), wouldn't that make him trade-able now? As Denzel said in Philadelphia, "Explain it to me like I'm a six year-old."
I can't believe y'all are having an argument about signing Olowokandi. I got a better idea, how about we don't even THINK about acquiring his sorry azz!!!
<i>I'm not saying we should (I'm starting to change my mind about a trade w/the Clips) but couldn't they make a verbal agreement to a trade before the draft and "pick for the Clippers" - then a month later, trade the rights of the pick with cap filler for a signed Kandi and Odom?</i> Yes, they could. Notice the last line of my post "I don't see how the Clips could trade him unless they wait and trade him in a sign and trade." But, there are ramifications of doing that. If they would have been able to trade him prior to becoming a free agent, then last years salary would have been used for the purpose of matching salaries in a trade. If they wait and do a sign and trade, then his NEW salary would be the number used for matching salaries. Since his new salary would be much higher than his previous salary, this means that the Rockets would have to ship out alot more salary in order to make the salaries match up. To do a deal like you are suggesting, it would have to be a sign and trade. Otherwise, if the Clips just sign Kandi, then they can't trade him until Dec. 15th. <i>Kandi can't be traded after the trade deadline in his final year. Next year is his final year, isn't it? And the trade deadline is Feb. Whateverth. Isn't that what the clause you post references? If I'm right (and I have a suspicion I'm not), wouldn't that make him trade-able now? As Denzel said in Philadelphia, "Explain it to me like I'm a six year-old."</i> First round rookie contracts are for 3 years with a team option for a fourth year. Olowokandi just completed his fourth year. This past season was the option year (and the final year) of his deal. You might be confusing the option year with restricted free agency. The team has the option for the 4th year at a preset salary amount. After the completion of the option year the player is a restricted free agent. This just means that the old team has the right to match any offer, but his contract is still completed. So, in Kandi's case, he just completed his option year and now he is a restricted free agent. Any clearer?
I am not a CBA expert or lawyer but let's break this down to what is known. 1) Olowokandi is a QO FA. 2) If the Clippers do not make Olowokandi an offer by June 30th, Kandi becomes an unrestricted FA (this of course is not going to happen). 3) Olowokandi's contract expires on July 1st. 4) FA signing can occur anytime after July 17th. I think everyone agrees that teams under the cap can make a bid for Kandi (just as the Rockets did last year for Marc Jackson). So to me the issue is this - If Kandi is allowed to be draft day traded (June 26th) OR if the Rockets and Clippers verbally agree to doing a deal after the draft (July 17th being the earliest date Kandi can actually sign a 2002-2003 contract) THEN both of these scenarios can be negativley impacted if other teams start to make offers for Olowokandi during the period from July 1 to July 16. To my knwoledge, no one is disputing that offers can not be made during this time period. As many lawyers as it must have taken on both sides to create the CBA, it is hard for me to imagine that draft day trades of players in options years in permitted based solely on the problems which this practice would create. But I've been wrong before.
Gater, Take a look at the excerpt from the CBA that I posted earlier in this thread. It's pretty clear that Olowakandi can't be traded unless he's resigned first. So, therefore, he can't be traded on draft day.
hp - Can we agree on something? For a moment, forget the legal rhetoric - Trading Olowokandi on draft day before any other team is allowed to bid on him (as we did Marc Jackson last year) creates problems for both the sending and receiving team. This in itself is enough to disallow it IMHO.
