Yao - a little help please !

Its hard to play zone against teams that shoot lights out from 3 point range...

 

Actually that's good video. It shows Yao wasn't very bad on defense last night. Gasol hit some tough shots. He could put a hand up here and there, but those Josh Powell buckets had nothing to do with Yao's defense.

So, related, here's a point to the original topic: if you lay off Yao of some interior/shot blocking responsibilities, I believe Yao Ming can improve his PnR defense. Right now, he is reluctant to come out as to becoming a habit, since his half-brain is on protecting the bucket. That game ending defense on Nash's 3 pointer provided some evidence.

 

Maybe they did and part of the problem is his hearing thingy. With a loud crowd and some hearing loss, could the big guy be missing those "heads-up" calls from the other Rocks on the floor, sometimes?

 

So you think they should go back to JVG's strategy more often? He always had Yao show on the PnRs.

 

ok. now how do we help Yao to get some rebounds?

 

Depending on the match up, yes. JVG knows his defense. PFs play better defense would help too.

 

One thing Yao needs to stop doing is bringing that ball down to his waist area. He needs to rebound that thing, keep it high, and THROW IT DOWN!

Once it's below his waist, everyone knows he doesn't have much upper body strength. Easy stripping of the ball....

 

Kobe would have killed zone, DD doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Is that why Rockets defense was so horrible under JVG?

 

Yao and Gasol last night was soft on soft crime.

Yet Yao still proves he is THE softest of the softs. Horrible.



After being in the league for quite a while now, one would think a post player like Yao would know how to seal his man off in the post by a effective/powerful low post move. He needs to assert himself in the post and let his defender know that its his space and he's going to get it.

Dude stays being a weak defensive/offensive liability especially down the stretch in the 2nd half. Some things will never change.

 

I hate being a Yao defender, because it makes me look like one of those Yao only fans, which I am most definitely not. I'm a team fan first and foremost. But I feel bad for the guy.

You know how everyone here complains about the no calls Yao regularly fails to get? The two hands on the back? The slaps, pulls, pushes, etc that the refs conveniently ignore?

Well, we're basically doing the same thing here. As fans, we can't help but see Yao as 7'6 (he's huge, he should dominate right?) and our go to, max player guy who should take over an be super-CLUTCH!...right? Thus, while conveniently ignoring all the positive things Yao does, we get tunnel vision focusing on his faults.

As for those faults, DD, I generally agree with what you're saying. But not to the extent.

Defensively, it seems to me, time and time and time again, that when Yao is out for longer stretches, the team is a clearly worse defensive team. Just a generalization, but they can't stop anyone in the paint when he goes out, and despite his "butterfingers" they become a worse rebounding team, too. Does Yao have problems with solid PnR tandems? Certainly...Scola is a much better defender in that situation. Does Yao have problems with bigs who can face up from 15, hit the jumper or put the ball on the floor? yes, again, obvious. But Carlos Boozer and Okur aside, I really don't think this is as much of an issue as you do. Look at Pau last night. He had a solid game, but nothing spectacular. His 9-18 shooting was actually below his season and career averages. And while he was out there shooting 50% on his jumpers, in 42 minutes he grabbed a total of 5 rebounds. Meanwhile, the team as a whole was breaking down on rebounding. Scola nearly grabbed his 10 boards, but couldn't keep Powell off the glass (3 offensive), Artest forgot to box out Ariza regularly in the first half (2 offensive) and for as crappy as Gasol did rebounding in general, the poor rebounding overall by the Rockets led to 4 of Gasol's 5 being offensive.

I don't think zone is really effective, either. I'm all for using it out of a timeout or every once in a while, but for the reasons Yao's not the super dominant center we really want him to be, are the same reasons he isn't great in a zone. He's not quick enough or "long" enough. As for Utah, yes Boozer clearly has an offensive advantage against him. But the issue really isn't Boozer as much as Okur. You don't see Yao trying to guard Dirk (he wouldn't do well there, either, but he doesn't have to, because he can guard Dampier). I understand why the coaches want Yao on Boozer. I think it has less to do with Yao not being able to guard Okur - despite his range, he is actually lacking the put the ball on the floor skill that would make him a real nuisance for Yao. It has more to do with the fact that if Yao is forced to guard Okur effectively (which again, I think he can do), now the team is back to the bad defense it regularly exhibits when Yao isn't controlling the paint. In general, it's just a bad matchup. Still, since the Boozer playoff domination two years ago, The Rockets PF options have expanded considerably (Scola, Landry and occasionally Artest) - I think you can live with Boozer hitting a few 15 footers with Yao guarding him if you can get a better mix of other players on him at times, the occasional zone (as mentioned) and better PG (Deron is the bigger problem than Boozer or Okur) and overall defense and rebounding.

Long post, but to your second major issue of sealing off his man. Again, can't disagree with you in general. And again, hate making excuses. Frankly, this isn't an excuse, and has been said many a time, but the entry passes have GOT TO get better. Again, this in no way makes it okay for Yao to let his man go around him so easily. But ignoring the horrible entry passes last night would also be a mistake. Aaron, Yao is 7'6...I know you're a midget, but at the very minimum, if you are going to bounce pass the ball to Yao, put a little more zip and little more bounce in it - it would be ideal if he wasn't catching the ball at his ankles. Shane, you're normally an efficient post entry passer. I understand Kobe and pals were really playing you tight on occasion last night, but there is no excuse for throwing Yao an entry pass (one, mind you that was off to his right a fair amount anyway), when there is ALREADY a second defender standing right behind him!

But, again, not to say Yao isn't at fault. He needs to get better at sealing his man off. I think he can get better...but not much. This isn't a new problem. At some point you have to realize he won't get much better. Whether it's mental or physical (I think the latter...I have no idea how coordination works at that size), it just won't improve that much. Hapring on it again...Yao needs to improve there, but let's also realize it will never be great and also hope the team realizes all the more important to make better entry passes.

Overall, it still shocks me how infrequently anyone throws the ball up in the air for Yao to grab. It would seem an obvious play. You know when Lowry or Wafer drive the lane, or Artest bullies his way in. They'll shoot a contested (by Yao's defender) layup before tossing the ball up by the rim in Yao direction. There was a post up play in the game last night where Yao was fed the ball very high. The passer wasn't really on the wing but closer to the center of the court and to get Yao the ball he had to throw it up and a little behind Yao. I think Gasol was defending. And Yao went and got it. Maybe Yao is equally as likely to fail to seal off his man when it is thrown up, too...I don't know, but I watched that play and thought, this wasn't exactly a good decision - a bad entry pass angle, a "long" pass that required our relatively slow center to quickly go back and catch the ball with a defender he was having problems sealing off, but Yao got it no problem...because he's freaking tall.

Anyway, I don't mean to say Yao can't make mistakes. He obviously can and does. I guess I just am less frustrated by them because (a) I see the positives as much if not more then the negatives (he literally anchors our defense, the offense generally runs much smoother when he is in the game, he is our best FG and FT shooter for the most part), and (b) I've never expected him to be the one to lead the team to a championship - the number of big men in the history of the NBA who have led their teams to championships isn't a long list, and becomes considerably shorter if that big man doesn't also have a clutch, one of the best in the league guard playing alongside him.

The brightside is, that with all of Yao's shortcomings, if the team doesn't shoot 5-28 from three and turn the ball over 23 times (not just Yao, Artest = 6, Wafer = 4, Lowry = 3), they walk away with an easy win.

 

You and I see some of the same thing.

 

What game was that because was definitely not the last one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehR3lfhPqEo

Where was Gasol shooting all those wide open jumpers with Yao 5 feet from him?

Gasol make a couple of jumpers with Yao close to him.

Pls dont start to make threads with false facts

 

Fundamentally, I think Yao stops "boxing out" when the entry pass is coming his way. It is a split second thing, but it allows the defender to finally get or reach around. Yao will box out and box out and box out and then the pass is coming and something in his brain says ok, time to stop focusing on this and start focusing on getting the ball. As a result, his momentum is still pushing him backwards a bit as he has been boxing out (or off balance a bit) and he does what you say, he reaches. Meanwhile the defender is finally free to go around him.

We know Yao can feel the defender and box him out for a bit at least, as he gets the ball successfully in the post all the time, too, and even when he fails to seal properly, it is usually at the end of the play.

So, ignoring cases where there is already a 2nd defender there in which case it is clearly an entry pass decision that has to be smarter, imagine instead of Yao failing to box out and reach when the entry pass is coming, he gets one final backwards bump in to back the defender off and also gets the ball.

I play in the post a fair amount when I play pickup, often guarding guys bigger than me. Unfortunately, I also am not very fast. But I do have some Chuck Hayes tricks up my sleeve. I know that the best time to push out the guy I'm guarding is when that entry pass is coming in. Like Yao, I think it is human nature for guys to stop focusing on getting good post position close to the basket and start focusing on getting the ball. You can literally "push" someone out a good foot or two when it happens. If I was quicker, I'd try to get around and steal the ball, too, as Yao's defenders do.

So I think there is definitely some mental aspects there that Yao can think about, practice and employ to get better. But I still think it is more a physical thing than a mental thing. He is what he is.

Also, another quick comment:

Take any NBA player who shoots a decent % from around or at the 3 point line. Eliminate the Jason Kapono's/Korver's of the world who literally have no other skill. So whether it is the players you mentioned above that are "bigs", or the guard/forwards - Nash, Jameer, Mo Williams, Ray Allen, Tony Parker (not 3 pointer, but now a solid mid range game), Wade, Kobe, Lebron....

who guards those guys effectively? No one. Those guys also either get open looks that they make at their fair % (if the defender is playing off), or they drive by the defender.

The problem isn't so much Yao's inability to guard those guys (Boozer aside), but the team's inability to protect the paint if Yao does. If Yao focuses on making sure Okur doesn't kill em with three's, I guarantee you Williams and Boozer would still have a PnR, or penetrate and dish field day.

Generally, when Brooks or Shane overplay someone and they drive to the paint, at least Yao is there as the anchor of the defense. When it's Yao having to guard on the perimeter, though, besides the obvious that he is a step slower than you'd like, if he guarded tighter like some perimeter defenders occasionally do and let his man dribble by without fouling, well, now you've got Scola guarding the lane...um, yikes!

you're right, it's definitely a problem, but I think I see it a little different than you. I don't freak out (not saying you're freaking out) and say Yao's a horrible defender because he can't shut down Bargani from hitting threes. That's the way the NBA is - if they guy you're defending can hit a long range jumper, well, you either have to play him tight, in which case 95% of NBA'ers drive around the defender and create offense going to the rim, or you play off of them, in which case, those players begin hitting those long range jumpers. This is true whether it is a big who can shoot or a guard. The double problem of a big who can shoot is, of course, when they drive the lane, your defense now has lost its interior defensive strength, and when you have a defense as reliant on that as the Rockets is on Yao standing tall with his hands straight up in the air, then it becomes an issue.

How to solve? Don't know, really. Occasional zone, switching Yao off to another player, etc. This is why Utah is such a bad matchup - Williams destroys our PGs every time, and BOTH Boozer and Okur can shoot from medium to long range.