Face and body is merely an indicator. The real meat is in the numerous reports/articles that clearly list them as younger than the IOC was led to believe.
I take it from this bamboo trainwreck of logical conundra that you are admitting victory? Your last point about Obama and Auschwitz is particulary prone to the smoking of the wacky tobaccky. I made a sarcastic comment about the willingness of Chinese posters to cite to state-run, state-censored media as absolute, religious gospel - the yin to your yang of you now running away from CCTV and Renmin Ribao and Xinhua etc now whenever it's not convenient for you. It was a simple 2-yuan rejoinder, not especially witty and actually only scoring a 14.0 due to its low degree of difficulty. If you want to discuss Tibet or something you can start another thread in a different forum, though perhaps its best for you to use the search function to read about the Chinese invasion and occupatin thereof, I've posted all I need to on that topic. For now I will simply sail away on the sea of my own awesomeness, leaving you to cling to the wreckage of your capsized Dragon boat. However since it is Friday, in the spirit of international cooperation, I offer you a gentleman's draw. Mei Guo 1 - Netizen 1. TIE
Does Alicia Sacramone look 20? Does Will Smith look40? Does Jackie Chan look like he's 54? The rules was there to protect younger kids bodies, why should a 16 year old with a body of a 12 year old compete while a 13 year old with a 17 year old frame not able to? The whole IOC standard for gymnastics entry is flawed, but we are not talking about that right now we are talking about whether those Chinese gymnastics girls "cheated" or not. While I believe they shouldn't be competing because it will be bad for their bodies later on in life, I don't think we should take away their achievements because of their looks either.
Age of Chinese gymnast under scrutiny http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=213588.html?_source=rss&cid=
Numerous reports based on a website and articles, is that kind of evidence be able to win you a case in court? Especially since they where able to produce official documents that says otherwise. There is not much the IOC can do at this point is there. People are more focused on how these girls should be striped of their medals while completely ignoring all the other girls who pretty much have the same kind of body frame who will have sever health problems later on in life.
LOL, typical Sammy style - while contradicting yourself, mess up the argument, throw out some generalized attacks, then claim victory over Internet. In my book, only insecure people who never won anything in life, would be busy claiming Internet victory. What's there to win? Just simple debate and discussion. You don't represent America, and I only represent myself. There is no scoring on Internet. Let's just enjoy the Olympics, like many athletes and spectators do, including many Americans.
I will say this, genetics does have something to do with it. But I still believe two of those girls... He and Deng... haven't hit puberty yet. I coach a 5th grade girl who is a 2nd gen American (her mother is Chinese american and her father is Chinese) and she is very very small, born late in 1996. She isn't the only one of my girls who is a lot shorter, the other is very much American and they are both about 4'5"-4'6". However, you can tell that neither of them have hit puberty yet by the way they are built. The other girls on my team that are only a little bit taller are all at that stage developing and you can physically see the difference. Most girls have hit that stage by the age of 14. Boys take longer. Obviously my girls aren't training for the Olympics or even gymnasts, but from working with athletes from the age of 8 to 14 I can pretty much tell where they are in the development stage. Those two girls, just aren't in or past that stage. The other two seem to be more likely closer to fifteen, their shoulders and chest are slightly wider and they have some semblance of hips... but the two girls He and Deng... just don't look like they have gotten to that stage.
Yeah, when I first saw her it looked like she was in the 5'7" - 5'10" range. Most of the Chinese male gymnasts are only 5'3". The male gymnasts are short too. Our tallest one is only 5'6" and Jonathan Horton is only 5'1".
Correction: numerous reports based on the listed ages of the competitors during previous competitons. As for the usefulness of the evidence, I don't know and don't care. Well, that's kind of the point. The passports etc. seem fishy given the previous documentation to the contrary. Nope. But China could (should) do something. uh. ok.
We were just talking about this at lunch...Apparently articles listing ages have "vanished"...Is it wrong, yes, but nothings going to happen as the OC stated they've verified the issuing countries passports and that's good enough for them...what BS...
This is what I am talking about, all you care about is that they "cheated", and ignore or simply don't care that the age rule was put in place to protect the health of the younger gymnasts world wide. Are they older then 16? Who knows, but the fact is they where able to bypass the age regulations because it is flawed and hard to enforce.
Actually Sacramone does look older than her counterparts and in the latest Will Smith pictures I have seen he looks to me like he is in his mid to upper 40s. Jackie Chan doesn't look that much younger than 54 either. For each individual you pointed out I can point out the exact opposite on other individuals and you hear a lot more people complain about they look too old but when do you ever hear people say I wish I looked old? Each person is going to see that aspect differently though and looks really don't matter when it comes down to it, I just stated that because I believe it is easier to make somebody look older than it is younger. Because those are the rules. I am sure there are some kids in junior high and high school maybe even levels below with NBA, NFL, etc. builds but guess what? Rules prevent them from competing. Maybe they don't make sense and maybe they do for some reasons but those are the set rules. Exactly. Even if they defeated the competition with underage girls the rules were broken. I give them props if they are underage but you must follow the rules. I don't look to take away from their victory for looks but facts. If facts say they cheated then they should be punished fittingly.
Uh. No. The topic of "health issues related to underage gymnasts" was simply not germaine to the discussion. It was just a bizarre red herring added to the end of your post. Thus the lackadaisical utterance in reply. Naturally, that is what you chose to focus on instead of the more intriguing discussion related to China's inability/disinterest to find ready-to-use data affirming the ages are legitimate.
The NBA and NFL rules are there because they don't want 16 17 year olds walking around with million dollar paychecks, and the NCAA is making so much money from them in the collegian level. Those have nothing to do with health what so ever. The rules are there, but I also believe that they are there to stop the younger gymnasts from hurting themselves rather then to stop 14 year old kids from getting into the Olympics. By the time those kids hit 20 their bodies will be worn down and you will never hear from them again. I agree the rules are there and should be followed but right now under the eye of the IOC's rules, they are following the guidelines. How can you say that you don't "look to take away from their victories" based on facts, when the facts are all pointing to that they didn't violated it in the first place. The IOC should implement the requirement based on if the gymnast's body is mature enough to withstand the strain of Olympic competition. But they won't do that simply because if that was the case 90% of the girls in this year's olympics wouldn't have been allowed to compete.
Because in the Chinese gymnastics people's eyes they have already proven enough, and the IOC has yet to prove other wise. I find it ironic that you would label their official documents as forged (I agree its highly suspicious), but then quickly jump on articles on the internet that have yet to provide any documentation. And you demand that China should do something when the Chinese national sports bureau are the ones putting them there in the first place. The question of health is the reason why those rules where put in place, thus is directly related to this discussion.
How can you say it isn't health, especially on the NFL front? I'm sure money is a large part of it in the NBA but there are some health factors there also. It doesn't matter what you and I believe about the rules. They are there and they should be followed. End of discussion there. OK but there are some questions around whether or not they followed the rules. I'm not saying they did and I'm not saying they didn't I'm just saying it is in question. I said I don't look to take away their victory based on their looks. Read it again. I don't either. They may look young but if they broke no rules then fine they won it but if facts say they did break rules they should be punished. Who would determine the body type then? What other sports has body type requirements besides weight divisions in wrestling, boxing, etc.? No other sports has that type of body type requirement that I know of.
Health is not a question though. Nobody is questioning the health of these girls it is their ages. Health is a moot point in this discussion.
The IOC has done nothing. Neither have the chinese gymnastics people. I don't demand anything. However, it would behoove the chinese to locate some additional documentation. Yes, news reports can get things wrong, but I have yet to see any news reports that show the ages correlating to the claimed age of 16. Certainly, you would think that if the reports covering gymnastics meets showing her age as 13 (from 2007, no less) were mistakes, there should be PLENTY of reports/records/articles stating the opposite. Or did all that magically dissappear? It makes no sense. If the ages are so obviously 16, show some data that proves it. Otherwise, as the wetzel column pointed out, the rest of the world will continue to look upon those medals as the olympic equivalent of "winning the pyrite". Hardly satisfying, and it should be simple to rectify. Unless, of course, the girls are truly underage.
