It's (way beyond) time for Hayes to come off the bench.

what do you suggest? put Head in? or might as well trade Battier for Kobe, he sure is a great offensive weapon..

you can't all your players average 20+ points a game (unless you're the celtics), it just doesn't make sense, not even possible.. how would you describe Rodman's offensive contributions to the Bulls? horrible right? but without him, they wouldn't have done what they were able to do.. Battier is your typical great role player, nothing fancy, but plays great defense, does the right things, and hits his open shot, heck, he even has his little post up move with the left-handed baby hook that always goes in, what else do you want him to do? drop 30 on Bruce Bowen and do Windmill dunks?

my argument was way more complex than only the video, but apparently that's the only thing you garnered from my post..

 

Umm, Rodman was on the court alongside Pippen, Jordan, Harper, and Longley, all capable offensive players. Laugh at Harper and Longley all you want, but they could knock down their open shots unlike their counterparts, Hayes and Alston.

My argument isn't against Battier. I would be totally fine with having any one of Alston, Battier, or Hayes in the starting lineup. My argument is against having ALL THREE together. Collectively, their offensive ineptitude is magnified. Your reading comprehension skills seem to be preventing you from grasping this.

 

i really think webber's gonna contribute big time... it's not that he can pass like steve nash, but he's good at reading the offense and making that extra little pass if necessary... most guys just dont see the opportunity opened up with that little extra pass... i've seen scola doing it a few time, and you just say "wow" when you see it...

 

I fully agree with this. It's only logical.

 

I agree with the idea that Battier, Rafer and Chuck shouldnt start together. People usually assume that Tmac and Yao should be able to handle all the offense but then you see what happens if Yao gets fronted.

If the defense is solid and they force Tmac to pass things just dont look good. Battier is almost exclusively a 3 point shooter on offense, Rafer cant hit the broad side of a barn from any range and Chuck... well... he tries, lets leave it at that.

We need a 3rd offensive player out there always and we have plenty on this team. A different combination is needed.

 

lmaoooo @ u even mentioning webber...smh

 

I completely agree that all 3 should not start. However, I think Hayes and Battier should. If we put all our offense in the starting 5 then the bench won't be able to score. Replace Alston with Francis. Come off the bench with Scola, Bonzi, and James. Occasionally throw in Head and Mutombo for matchup purposes. Please just get rid of Alston. He is a cancer on the floor just like Juwan Howard.

 

I totally agree with having Francis start in place of Alston... heck, I would take any PG in this league and start him over Alston. this isn't even debatable, but like you said, I think Battier and Hayes are absolutely essential for this team's success..

I also think minute distribution should come down to matchups.. if we're playing the Lakers, starting Bonzaaay isn't smart because he will get owned on D by Kobe.. now, if we're playing, say, San Antonio, I think Bonzi should start (or get the majority of the minutes) since Battier wouldn't be that useful guarding Bruce Bowen..

 

And yet this team could be under .500 after the next week, close to 20 games into the season....yeah, your point is OUTSTANDING.


Some of you guys are absolutely lost. LOOOOST. Chuck Hayes is a servicable player. But your PF spot is not a spot where you want someone who 12 games in, has yet to even shot ONE..not ONE free throw. He rebounds well, and has heart...but he is averaging 3 PPG. Its not like we are talking about a Dennis Rodman, or a Ben Wallace type of offensive inefficiency here people. 3 POINTS per game. Zero free throws for the season. He can't post up, he has ZERO shooting ability (didn't he only make one jump shot all last season?) The Bigger and badder PF's shoot over him (please rewatch TD on him last spurs game), he is a back up people...A BACKUP. Our two weakest spots from last year remain our two weakest spots once more. He is the second weakest link behind Rafer Alston. Please watch his man on D if he is anywhere not near the baseline. He creates a jam, by not being able to make a single jump shot for a season, or a freethrow. The only points Chuck does get is from TMac finding him under the hoop. His ENTIRE offensive repitoire is see what TMac can't get for him.

I love Chuck Hayes and all, but he just isn't starter material. He would NOT start for any other NBA team out there...and he definately wouldn't start for anyone throwing the word "contender" out there.

 

Dreamshake, I share your frustration with the inexcusable performance of the Rockets, and I agree with you that the rotation needs major revision/adjustment especially at the PG spot, I just don't think that Chuck Hayes is the right guy to blame because he has been a plus for us the whole year. we don't have Hayes in for scoring, we have him for hustle plays/great D/great rebounding/second chance points/finishing under the basket. the guy has unbelievable hands and he is the only Rocket that I trust 100% in receiving a bullet pass from Tmac and not fumbling it out of bounds.

again, Alston needs to go, Head needs to go, Francis & Snyder see the majority of action.. but Battier and Hayes have defined roles that are absolutely essential for the success of this team..

 

once again, we don't have Chuck in for scoring, if, however, the other team decides to double off of him, he won't stand on the perimeter like Ryan Bowen and brick shots all night, he would cut hard to the basket and stand in the right spot to the get the pass from whoever is getting doubled..

btw, here's a breakdown of the points distribution to have a better picture:

25 points by Tmac
20 points by Yao
30 points by the bench

that's a total of 75 points, since we need about 95-105 points a game, this leaves the other 3 starters (Hayes, Battier, and NOT Alston) with a total of about 20 points a game: if Francis was starting, he would easily get atleast 10 points a game, leaving Chuck and Battier with only 10 points, which is less than what they are actually producing right now...

now of course, this analysis is very vague and inaccurate, because Mac and Yao can explode for 30+ points at any given night and the bench might suck and give you only 15 points on any given night, but I think this is a fair representation of the scoring expectation placed on Hayes and Battier..

I think everything would be perfect if Alston is simply replaced by Francis, and Head is simply replaced by Snyder..

 

Hayes is good and has deserved his starts but he ain't no Dennis Rodman.

 

I am not against bringing in Webber. But then who do we release? Novak or Snyder or Landry? Lakers is going for Webber also.

 

I don't play fantasy basketball. But I do watch. Sometime too much. Dirk ISO'd and scored in 3 straight possessions with less than 4:30 in the game. Twice on Hayes, once on Battier who fouled him.

My guess is that blind loyalty to a player that they can "relate" to is dumbing down the casual fan. I present Exhibit B.

Hayes was 1 for 3 on a losing team and his defenders scream "intangibles" as they pound their chests over his +18 game. Meanwhile, a player on the winning team is not known for "intangibles" but goes 8-16 with 18 points and is only plus +1. That would be Dirk who had 1 more rebound than Hayes.

Hayes needs to go to the bench. Case closed.

 

Yes,I agree,Scola will rise once got more time in later game.
Tracy+Yao+Scola have the power of taking 70 pts every game.

 

I think the lineup is fine. Shaq and Kobe won a title with Fox, Fisher, and Horry starting. First and foremost this isn't the Kings, this isn't the Blazers. We can't play those styles. Not as crisp and versatile like the Kings, not physical like the Blazers.

Scola has looked lost until recently. I will listen to PG arguments. But you cant take out Hayes. He and Battier are the only consistent players this team has. You need consistency from your starters.

You guys want to take out the only guy with balls on this team. Remember what Rudy said about that 1st championship team. "these guys have big balls". Godspeed.

 

The problem is that it is hard to quantify individual defense in basketball. People who do not care about statistics will not bother to read cites such as http://www.82games.com/nichols2.htm or http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewtopic.php?t=1572&start=15. The second link has a post by "bchaikin" 3rd post down that is particularly well written. He or she says it better than I could.

I can understand the idea of wanting more offensive help in our starters. But there isn't a viable replacement on this team to make up for the defensive success of Chuck. And if you think that Chuck is just an above average defender or rebounder then we must not be watching the same game. Watch his D closely in the games. He makes the opposing PF work hard for every shot. Dirk is the MVP and only scored 18. I know that he had two buckets at the end that hurt us, but somedays the MVP is going to do that and there's not much you can do about it (double team maybe). Hayes' D on other PFs may not be as effective (TD perhaps), but it was pretty effective on Dirk and I think always has been. Limiting Dirk one-on-one puts us in the game and takes pressure off of help defenders. This also allows Batty to play help D (b/c he's not guarding Dirk) and hopefully helps slow down those damn PGs.

 

Great points on Hayes. I genuinely think he is one of the top 10 individual man-to-man defenders in basketball.

 

I'm a big Hayes fan but the dude has to start for us. He moves without the ball pretty good (unlike some of the other players we have ) Besides you can't put Scola in the sarting line up. He's not ready! Also you'll lose some of your O off the bench. Battier should start also he is one our guys that play D. He is also one of out leaders. Yao and T-Mac out the stars of the team but neither won of them is a leader. T-Mac takes some bad shots at the end of games and Yao seems to fade away because hes playing too much in the first 3 quaters. Altson on the other hand Should not be a starter hes not a leader, we wouldn't be loseing and O if Francis or Brooks becomes the starter due to the fact neither is in the rotation. James shouldn't and better not become the starter then you loose more of your bench! It's Time! is what they want us to think! Maybe Coach should listen to it and say It's Time - to get Altson out of the starting pg position and put in someone else!

 

I'm (NOT) a big Hayes fan but the dude has to start for us. He moves without the ball pretty good (unlike some of the other players we have ) Besides you can't put Scola in the sarting line up. He's not ready! Also you'll lose some of your O off the bench. Battier should start also he is one our guys that play D. He is also one of out leaders. Yao and T-Mac out the stars of the team but neither won of them is a leader. T-Mac takes some bad shots at the end of games and Yao seems to fade away because hes playing too much in the first 3 quaters. Altson on the other hand Should not be a starter hes not a leader, we wouldn't be loseing and O if Francis or Brooks becomes the starter due to the fact neither is in the rotation. James shouldn't and better not become the starter then you loose more of your bench! It's Time! is what they want us to think! Maybe Coach should listen to it and say It's Time - to get Altson out of the starting pg position and put in someone else!