Heres a pretty cool story I found on http://www.space.com I would think that with water, the possibillities of a landing are greatly improved. Wonder how long till we find some creepy crawlies. New Signs of Water on Mars Create Hope of Great Discovery By Leonard David Senior Space Writer and Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 09:07 am ET 14 December 2001 The Mars Odyssey spacecraft has uncovered preliminary yet tantalizing evidence for water near the surface of Mars and away from the permanently frozen north polar ice cap. Scientists already know there is water ice in the polar cap. But water ice near the surface in warmer regions of the planet would be a remarkable and long-sought finding that would have broad implications in the search for extraterrestrial life and for the possibility of human exploration of Mars. The data, collected during tests of Odyssey's neutron spectrometer, show signs of hydrogen, which may or may not mean there is water. Hydrogen is one component of water but also exists alone and in other substances. NASA researchers stressed that the findings are preliminary. They aren't sure exactly what the new data tell them, but they were optimistic enough to discuss the research this week at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. Just 3 feet down The detection of hydrogen points to the possibility that there is water ice within 3 feet (1 meter) of the surface, said James Garvin, lead scientist for the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters in Washington, D.C. "Is this a real science result? Maybe," Garvin told SPACE.com. "But whatever it is, it bodes very well for finding hydrogen in the upper few feet of Mars, and the most likely culprit is water ice." Such ice might melt in summer months and would be reachable by robotic or human explorers. It might even support microbial life, as researchers have found on Earth that wherever there is water, there is life. Bill Feldman, the principal investigator of Odyssey's neutron spectrometer and a researcher at Los Alamos National Lab, first revealed the findings Wednesday at the AGU meeting. The quantity of hydrogen detected was so startling -- suggesting a huge concentration relative to what Feldman saw with a similar instrument on Lunar Prospector, which surveyed the Moon -- that researchers may task Odyssey to begin mapping crustal water ice during the first week January, Garvin said. Science just beginning Meanwhile, Odyssey isn't even supposed to be doing science yet. The craft, which arrived at Mars in September, is still in the middle of aerobraking, a procedure designed to slow it down and pull it into a permanent, stable orbit around Mars. The task won't be completed until at least mid-January. But Garvin said a great story may be about to unfold. The hydrogen detection was made during the first test of Odyssey's neutron spectrometer, a subsystem of a gamma ray spectrometer instrument. The test pass covered an area from the equator to the north pole. The resolution of the observations were at 100 kilometers or more. Garvin explained that the speculation of water ice is based on comparing observations over the permanent ice cap with observations farther south. Scientists know that the polar cap contains both water ice and carbon dioxide ice, commonly thought of as dry ice. The northern ice cap shrinks in summer to as little as 1,000 kilometers in diameter. In winter, it ranges as far south as 60 degrees latitude. Odyssey detected hydrogen farther south, at 55 degrees. The poles are at 90 degrees and zero represents the equator. "This pass suggested that hydrogen was enriched in a high-latitude region extending from around 55 degrees North to near to the edge of the north polar cap, and that it was not enhanced over the north polar permanent cap," Garvin said. "This suggests, in a most preliminary sense, that if the hydrogen in the northern high latitudes is water, that there is ice in the upper meter or so of this region ... and that it is masked by a carbon dioxide frost cover on the permanent cap." Garvin and others expect a flurry of findings from Odyssey early next year. The craft will also map Mars in visible and infrared light, and is expected to produce a picture a day beginning in February. But it is the search for water that will be Odyssey's top priority. Just weeks ago, one top Odyssey scientist said the prospects for finding water near the surface of Mars represented a longshot. All that seems to have changed now. "We're not there yet, but getting close. So stay tuned," Garvin said. "We should be reporting on definitive water mapping by sometime in early February 2002. My bet is that we will see lots of new 'water stories' once Odyssey is mapping."
That would definitely help any manned expeditions... The "two phase" expeditions they've been speculating on for the past couple of years would actually work if there's permafrost in the equatorial regions. They'd actually have a fuel source for the return vehicles... Interesting.
Am I the only one who finds it so strange that there is a real possiblity that our DNA may have evolved from DNA originally on Mars? There has been speculation that Mars may have once been able to hold life and that some of that may have traversed a bit of the solar system and made it to earth. They have found rocks in different areas of the country that were bits of meteors or debris broken off of the red planet. What I find fascinating is that, throughout our Western history, Mars has been the planet most embedded in our folklore. It is closer and bright in the night sky but Jupiter actually outshines it most nights though Mars is red. But, think of all the old sci-fi movies about Martians and even the show My Favorite Martian. Scientists had always thought that Venus was more inhabitable based on its proximity (being Earth's twin) but we know that Mars is actually a much better fit than Venus now. I just wonder if all that Martian stuff wasn't embedded deep in our subconscious somewhere. I mean, if we knew very little about our surrounding planets, why so much emphasis on Mars? Just interesting stuff.
Jeff: Alot has been made about the "face" on Mars, but pretty much nothing's been made of Cydonia itself (the area where the "face" is located). There are at least 3 pyramids there, all of which encompass an abnormally high number of right angles. There is a 3-sided, a 4-sided, and a 5-sided pyramid in the midst of what looks like an abandoned city. Straight lines (which nature abhors) run to various points, indicating long-lost roads... I am personally of the opinion that mankind has visited Mars before, strange as that sounds. I think we've just forgotten. Don't forget that we've been here with these brains for at least 100,000 years... It would be striking to realize that we've done nothing with those brains save for the last 6,000 years. But even if that whole "civilization on Mars" thing is discounted, there is considerable evidence that Mars was once like Earth - liquid water running everywhere - and it is not a difficult leap to assume that at least microbial life arose there. Since it is the 4th planet, it is that much more likely to catch any microbial life off of comets or other bodies that Earth would not receive. Much earlier, too. Which would give it a head start on evolution... And I wouldn't discount the possibility that there was a microbial transfer of genetic material from Mars to Earth sometime in the distant past. Something (a large comet/asteroid) knocked the hell out of Mars long ago, and it wouldn't be inconceivable that a large piece of Mars landed on Earth...
Cydonia: Note the several "pyramids" arrayed in a semicircle (which seem to be equidistant from a central point) Also keep in mind that nature abhors straight lines... Weathering does not produce congruent right angles. Even to the untrained eye there are an awful lot of straight lines and right angles here... Conspiracy!!! J/K. (But why won't they send a rover to Cydonia? NASA has consistently avoided that prospect, saying that there's nothing interesting there..)
Wow Jeff that was. . .deep. Seriously, I agree with you, and here something to expand on that theory. People always talk about our connection to earth emotionally, spirituality, things like that, but if we came to Mars, and for whatever reason we always think of Mars, like you said maybe it's embedded into our mind, or maybe it's embedded into our genes since we actually came from Mars! Things to ponder.
I think my tendency is to believe we were there first. What if, for example, a civilization like ours existed on Mars years and years before the existence of life on our planet? Maybe our world was seeded with DNA from an advanced race that predated us. Maybe we are monuments to them.
Watson and Crick would believe you Jeff, but I would not. My belief is that we are the much smaller part of a larger lifeform, that the universe is replicating, and that what we call planets are simply the molecular structure of that bigger something. I am usually wrong. No doubt about that, but if what I'm saying is true, then our DNA is everywhere in the universe. Life would thus be everywhere, but each lifeform with a very different purpose. I have a gut feeling the universe is helical in shape.
Wow, now that is strange! Well, no wierder than anything else. Someone once said that humans can no more understand "God" than an ant can understand a passing locomotive. Both are two big for the observers to even comprehend. So, no reason to think your theory is any less plausible than any other.
Not to be too anal but you're only half right about Watson and Crick PSJ. While Crick does belive in extraterrestrial seeding, Watson most certainly does not. In fact there is a great deal of friction between the two and they are never seen together anymore. This issue is larly what drove them apart because frankly Watson thinks Crick is a bit of a loon. I actually met Watson when he spoke at my school and got my picture taken with him. One of the coolest things that's ever happened to me. Man I'm such a geek...
Another tangent: The mysteries of Atlantis all talk about the advanced technology they had there, technology drastically different from our own. Legends speak of Atlanteans giving people the technology and ability to build the great pyramids in Egypt and S. America, amongst other highly advanced things. What happened to this technology? Where did it come from? Many think either Atlantis was home to a highly advanced race of humans or it was home to a race of humans who were taught to be highly advanced. Many of these same theorists believe that this advancement and technology (and perhaps the advanced humans of Atlantis themselves) came from (an)other planet(s), with Mars being the prime candidate. Interesting stuff.
If any of you have ever read "Foucault's Pendelum," by Umberto Ecco, the main character's fiance gives the best explanation of things like this I've ever read . If anyone has the book, you should post the exact explanation. I wouldn't want to do it the disservice of paraphrasing... just too classic.
This theory may seem 'out there', but it's just a result of brainstorming... What if humans did live on Mars millions of years ago (when Earth was unfit for us to live on), and then eventually the weather changed/meteorite collision or some other disaster occured on Mars, forcing the Humans to send off DNA/Cells to Earth where it would eventually evolve into another species of Humans. Sounds like something from Stargate, but it is possible....
Here's a funny story for you. When I was 15-16 my dad was engaged to this lady named Sandy and we all lived together. She was kinda strange, but in a good way if you know what I'm saying. Anyway she was always giving me these tests and writing down stuff about me....what I ate, what I didn't....blood type....allergies....stuff like that. Well one day she brings this old guy home who wants to talk to me. Come to find out he beleived that aliens had visited Earth in the past, and some had stayed and mated...produced offspring...so on and so forth. Well, he beleived that I was a "star-child" (his word not mine) and that I needed to read all these books about honing powers and **** like that. Well I told my Dad that night what had happened and they had a huge fight and we moved to his family's in Louisiana so I never saw Sandy again. Now I'm not saying if you beleive in this kinda stuff you're wrong, but what kinda trip is that to lay on a teenage kid though? Anyway, if you're allergic to seafood and have O- blood I'm sending you a mental message....did you get it?
Well, if Cydonia is artificial, then somebody used to live there. And they liked building pyramids... Sounds familiar. We still aren't really sure how old homo sapiens is. The date keeps getting pushed back. It was generally estimated that we were 30,000 years old when I was in grade school. Now it's 100,000... So who knows? Has anyone here ever read The Earth Chronicles series by Zecharia Sitchin? The Sumerians claimed that our "ancestors" came here over 432,000 years ago from elsewhere. According to them, their "Gods" were actually a human-like race from another planet who created mankind as worker-slaves; they had an outpost on Mars. Pretty far out stuff for a 6,000 year old culture...
Maybe way back in the day Mars and the Earth used to be alot a like as far as the conditions on the planets are concerned and some how people (or life forms) came from Mars to earth but then got cutoff from Mars and the people on Mars developed really fast and then they somehow (nuclear war??) destroyed themselves as well as all lifeforms on there planet. This could explain the pyramids.
It is generally accepted that Mars was hit by an immense comet or asteroid sometime in the (relative) not-too-distant past. That comet apparently "killed" the planet...
Gaia theory for the Universe? Makes sense to expand the concept of the extended living organism to the unverse from the Earth. Although the Universe may be a living system in most respects, I not sure that I would take the tack that the 'universe is replicating'. It is interesting to note that the 'Universe' 'seeks' to grow information and knowledge. DNA is a small example, but is possibly spread through the Universe on comets. Human brains are an advanced example, and are the 'Universe's' way of reaching self-awareness. Or whatever
The Earth Chronicles are great reads. I am about the start the 3rd series..."The Wars of Gods and Men". What throws me for loop, is that the scientific world (and governments) know more than what they are letting on. Why!? What purpose does it serve to keep us in the dark? Would the world's religions crumble? Would there be social and economic collapse? Utter chaos? Why can't we be told the truth?
