1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Man Up, Rick.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Dreamshake, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. rockets34

    rockets34 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0

    Very well said. Absolutely right. I honestly can't take anymore of rafers and luther's running around like chickens with their heads cut off at the end of games and losing them for us in the last 2 minutes with their poor decisions. My eats to tonight's game are directly behind the rockets bench and you can safely assume that if rafer, mj, and head continue their standard of play I will be heckling the **** out of the coaching staff about why steve is on the bench.
     
  2. RocketsFanSam

    RocketsFanSam Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    1
  3. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62

    I do think Luther Head played his way out of that situation. Course, if T-Mac were playing Head wouldn't have, but still. Head needs to stick to spotting up. He looked ok without the ball, and finally hit a 3. Head isnt a ball handler.
     
  4. Dreamshake

    Dreamshake Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank You Rick! Now stick with it, allow Steve to get his game shape on, I think that the Rox should even start to tinker with letting AB get some of Heads minutes.


    Just let Steve get a fair shot WHEN TMAC comes back. Let Rafer slip to the second unit. Run Rafer, James at 2 guard, and Bonzi at the Three. Or substitue as needed.


    I think Tmac needs an "above the rime" type of player to compliment him. Someone who can attack with him, penetrate and dish. Which is why Rafer/Chuck/Battier fails. Leave Battier in because he brings so much more, Chuck because outside of the taller 4 superstars he is a monster on D, but give alot of his minutes to Scola let them split the time.


    I fear that Scolas game will suffer the most once TMac comes back. Don't get me wrong, I believe in TMac and know we need him, but Tmacs game is the ball in his hands too much. Still, just like with JVG.


    If Steve can figure out how to incorporate Yao, not turn the ball over too much and put pressure on the D, then he will be just fine in the lineup. He is exactly what the Rox need. Let Battier be the spot up 3 shooter. Let Chuck be the cleanup man. Let Yao dominate the post and have two wing players able to penetrate and get to the line if need be.


    Please Rick. Just give Steve a chance once Tmac comes back.
     
  5. LeGrouper

    LeGrouper Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    5
    I totally agree with you Dreamshake. It isn't even that I don't like Rafer. It is simply that we CANNOT win with Rafer and Chuck in our Starting line up. They cannot score. We put way too much of a burden on Yao and Tmac to provide offense.

    Our starting unit has relied on Yao and Tmac for all of the offense all season long. If one of those guys is out, we can't score. We need more balance on the offensive end, period.

    Adelman's stubborness, like JVG, will eventually cost us down the line.

    I also believe that there is a hesitancy by Adelman to play Francis because if Francis does well, the public will be clamoring for more playing time. That's why he won't even play Francis during garbage time.

    Here is a starting line up with plenty of Firepower.

    Yao
    Scola
    Battier
    Tmac
    Francis or Head or James

    Bring Raf and Chuck in at 6 & 7 for ball handling and hussle.
     
  6. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62

    Your 6th man isnt a hustle or ball handling guy.

    Hence why having Rafer starting and James backing him up is much better than James starting and Rafer backing him up.

    That being said, your finishing lineup needs to include at least 4 guys that can shoot/post up/penetrate so as to make sure there are plenty of options. I am much more comfortable with Rafer/Hayes in the starting lineup than I am with both of them in the finishing lineup.

    As it stands now a finishing lineup with Alston/McGrady/Battier/Scola/Yao isnt that bad, if we can get the Scola of late and not the Scola of the first weeks of the season.
     
  7. kwng

    kwng Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,588
    Likes Received:
    1
    Great to see Francis play again. I just hope Adelman will allow Francis to play at least 10-12 min a day to knock of his rust and if he improves, his PT should increase. We need his scoring (penetrate, FT & layups) and his defense (steal & rebound). I am looking forward to see 3-all stars in rockets game soon (TMac, Yao and Francis) .. hopefully Scola will join their status soon.
     
  8. jondoe

    jondoe Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yep, Scola gotta start, hayes is just too much of a liability on Offense. Someone made a good point that having Battier, Hayes, and Alston as starters is too weak on the offensive side. Which one of the three could ever score 20 or more points? Even fifteen is a stretch with these guys. Hayes would have a career game if he went over ten. That is just pathetic. You need high powered offenses to give Yao and Tmac room to work. Also, Hayes clogs up the middle of the lane for Yao because he doesn't stray too far from the painted area. If he does, he is a bystander, useless, harmless, hopeless. Scola has range, maybe not three point range, but enough to keep a defense honest.
    And rafer, well, he just plains bites. All he does is run down the floor, then pull the ball back and wait to brick more shots.

    Season averages for three starters:

    Battier- 8.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 40% shooting
    Hayes- 3.5 ppg (jeezus), 6.2 rpg, 54%
    Alston- 7 ppg, 4.7 asst, 33...33%! OMG

    Only Battier would start for any other team in the league, including the bottomfeeders. TIME FOR A SHAKEUP!
     
  9. jondoe

    jondoe Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    Also Hayes should be benched because he tried to flop last year and broke Yao's leg. And Rafer will hopefully go to jail soon so Adleman doesn't have a choice. Maybe the Rox can move their practice facilities so Rafer won't know where to report when he gets out of jail.
     
  10. jondoe

    jondoe Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    And also, did you know that Rafer is getting paid 15 million over the next three years? Whoever the genius was that traded for him should be fired...oh yeah, JVG was fired last year, I forgot. Why didn't he take his garbage with him?
     
  11. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    9,643
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    <br>
    HAHAHA that was pretty funny :D
     
  12. LeGrouper

    LeGrouper Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    5
    Bucman, my lineup was crafted on the fly with the intention of adding more scoring threat to our starting line up, which is seriously lacking firepower because of the dead weight of Rafer and Chuck.

    If Rafer isn't a ball handling PG, then I don't know what the hell he is. Please tell me what Skip is please. Chuck is the hussle of course. I hope you can at least agree on that.

    Also, there is no such thing as a "finishing line up". If you don't score points early in the game, there is not much point in trying to score at the end of the game. We have plenty of scoring options on the bench. We need to at least subtract Raf or Chuck from the starting five (we are the only team in the NBA that would start either of them) and insert a player who is a threat to score. Right now opposing defenses are able to design their entire defense around stopping Yao. However, we don't have anyone who can capitalize on the opportunities this creates for teammates.

    When you mention the Scola of late vs. the Scola of the first weeks of the season, you should keep in mind that a big difference is the number of minutes he is playing. A player, especially one that is new to the league, needs time on the floor to get into a rythym. I think Scola has done great with the minutes he has had so far. But Scola would be starting on most other NBA teams. Why Chuck Hayes is starting in front of the MVP of Basketball Championships is a mystery to me.
     
  13. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62
    No, I mean the 6th man most teams bring in isnt for hustle or ball handling ability. Its for scoring. Which is why James is best suited for that role. Instant offense.

    And a finishing lineup is usually who is out there on the floor when the game is close in the final few minutes. For instance, Manu isnt in the starting lineup in San Antonio, but he is a finisher.


    Chuck Hayes = good for starting lineup, bad for finishing lineup.

    We'll see how long Hayes starts in front of Scola. I could see Scola/Yao starting off and Hayes comes in for Scola or Yao and takes over at the 4.
     
  14. LewLLOYD

    LewLLOYD Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,669
    Likes Received:
    102
    Rasselas, you make an excellent point. I'd stop reading if it wasn't for posters like you who keep the insanity that is sometimes this board in check.

    I liked JVG, and I also like RA. RA comments after the Suns loss were well said. Lets see if we can get it together.

    --
    I like Steve as much as anyone,
    and to add the obvious, Rafer is definitely not scoring well,
    and neither is James, Head, or Battier.

    Its been a tough four games.
    One more w/o TMac and then we'll see if we can get it going.
     
  15. Dreamshake

    Dreamshake Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    So are the reports that even Tmac is lobbying for Francis true? If so, then whats this say about Adelman?

    Lets put this in football perspectives.


    Rex Grossman and Rafer Alston.


    Two Worthless players who may do just enough not messing up to get their "A" list teams into the playoffs. But end result against good teams are going to be the same...and no sorry, there were NO good NFC playoff teams last year.


    Rick...You can't say its about who performed better in preseason, when Rafer is performing terribly in the "real games"

    Rick...You can't say, well look at our record 5 games ago, when you are about to lose your fourth straight, Yao has regressed, and the team is just not that good. Would a football coach sitting at 6-5 say "well 4 weeks ago this team was 6-1"??? Of freaking course not.

    Rick...We tried it already...it failed. Get it through your thick skull already. You have 4 giant offensive liabilities in your rotation right now. You can make that 5 if Bonzi doesn't snap out of it. Its PAST time for a shake up. You have 3...THREE....thats THREE starters averaging about 18 points per game. All shooting at miserable clips 11 games into the season. If you throw Head into the equation, then it gets even worse.

    Rick...it is YOUR job to find ways to win. And right now with Yao, Bonzi, Francis, James, Battier, Scola (playing well his last few) you should be able to scrounge up something.

    Rick...its NOT working...Even when we sat at 6-1, I knew this team was one injury away from being a disaster, and this team has WAAAAAAAAAAY too much talent to be a disaster because we lose a player...yes even of TMACs stature.

    Rick...Just shut up, man up, and give Steve a chance. This team needs him to be productive, and for every game you let him rot on the bench, we are that much further away from building a true competitor.

    Its about winning, and you claim best "chances" for winning. Yet even with Tmac in, we lost to Memphis, should of lost the Bobcats, lost to Dallas, and lost to LA. What rocks are you smoking dude.
     
  16. mzymmm

    mzymmm Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    AMEN! :cool:
     
  17. LeGrouper

    LeGrouper Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    5
    I actually think that Adelman is doing the cowardly thing. He is maintaining the starting line up from last year. One that didn't get us out of the first round.

    The same concenpt that caused Bonzi to miss all of last year, this mysterious "based on his attitude and what I've seen in practice" BS, we are playing Rafer Alston over 3 or 4 players who are superior in talent.

    And I can't even begin to understand why Chuck is starting in front of Scola. I thought Scola was a lock to start this year. The guy was the Spanish league MVP and the MVP of the FIBA world basketball championships and he can barely get playing time on a team that desperately needs a scoring PF.

    WTF???

    I think Rick needs to man up. He needs to have some faith in the players that can bring this team to the next level. That is not going to happen with Raf and Chuck in the starting five. I love Chuck Hayes, I think he is a great role player, and would be perfect coming off the bench. But we have to establish some players around Yao and Tmac who can consistently score.

    I think Rick is sticking with the status quo because he believes it will help him win games in the short term. Rick adelman has a history of regular season wins, a good regular season winning percentage, but he hasn't done crap in the post season. We have to set our team up now to win in the post season. Scola needs to start now so he is ready and comfortable for the playoffs.
     
  18. Dreamshake

    Dreamshake Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    1,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    That my friend is what it all boils down to. I could care less that Steve Francis is sitting. I care that Rick is sitting a player of Steve's caliber (weather you like him or not) and playing people like Luther head over him. Its absolutely asinine. You can't tell me their isn't an agenda here. I refuse to allow his grouch to get in the way of our ability to win playoff games.


    It is the ultimate hypocracy to claim "Best chance for winning" and then promply be .500. It is the ultimate hypocracy to say "he outpreformed in the preseason" and then allow him to completely stink it up in the regular season.


    I want playoff wins Ricky Rick. Quit being a coward, and doing what was already done last year.
     
  19. amadeus

    amadeus Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    0
    We all said Bonzi suck last season.

    RA don't know how to use Steve, and our super center, Yao.
     
  20. poprocks

    poprocks Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,779
    Likes Received:
    0
    It will take probably a loss to the Mavericks and then another loss between Denver and Miami before a shakeup occurs. We really don't get a break in the schedule until December 1st. If we truly are an Elite team, we should at least win half the games or more. If we lose the next three games in a row, there will surely be a shakeup.

    Our schedule up to the December 1st game with bottom feeder Sacremento is really tough and I can see us actually losing the majority of these games unless the team really gels and we start using our best offensive weapons on the court now.

    Nov 21 Dallas 8-2
    Nov 23 Miami 2-8
    Nov 24 Denver 8-3
    Nov 26 LA Clippers 5-4
    Nov 28 Phoenix 9-2
    Nov 29 Golden State 3-6

    All of these teams are potential playoff teams. Miami vs Rockets has historically been a war and a close game. Clippers should be a win for the Rockets but they are playing very well right now. Golden State just obliterated the Knicks last night and I can see them making a run. If we come out of this next game swing winning just 3 out of the next 6 it would be ok. Dallas/Denver/Phoenix are going to be really tough for us. We don't match up well with Dallas and Phoenix. Denver with Iverson and Carmelo Anthony are really clicking right now. To top it off, we only have one home game during this stretch against Denver. Even the Sacremento game is away on December 1st.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now