Will Rafer be released outright before the start of the season?

He can't play well off the ball IMO. Adelman is not JVG, he does not force players out of position and out of natural offensive tendency, strength, and rhythm.

The whole Francis at two guard discussion on the forum sounds just like the notion last year that somehow Battier could play PF or much how JVG decided Spanoulis was a two guard. Or that Luther Head was a point guard. The fans were wrong on Battier and the coach on the other two. None of those players had the proper skill set to handle that spot.

Francis has no proper skill set to handle the two spot. Yes his assist to turnover ratio is not ideal for a point guard, but he is not a two guard in a point guard's body or a combo guard. He's not an undersized two guard. He's a point guard that turns it over a lot and makes boneheaded plays. That does not make him a two guard.

It's just like Spanoulis was a point guard that would go for highlight reel passes to teammates that were not capable of completing them or catching them, it did not make him a two guard because it could lead to turnovers.

It's almost as if Rockets fans would want Steve Nash playing two guard because Van Gundy convinced everyone point guard play = bring ball up court, pass to T-Mac, stand at 3 line, catch ball from Yao, shoot 3, brick, rinse, repeat as often as is deemed necessary.

It didn't make Head a point guard because he was only 6-3. It seems a lot of fans are equating Francis with Head, and it just confuses me. I think a lot of Rockets fans must just have forgotten how Steve plays.

It's just like with Battier and Head they have no skill for the 4 or 1, Steve doesn't have the skills for the 2. He's too lacking off the ball, he's too unable to move off screens, he's too inconsistent as a spot up shooter, he's way too undersized to guard anyone, etc.

Adelman's system for the point spot is perfect for Francis and James. Francis just plays like Jackson (he attacks the rim and gets to the line) and starts, James plays like Bibby and comes off the bench as spark, which is suited to his talent level.

James can play off guard quite well on offense because that's suited for his game offensively, even more than point guard. But he just cannot guard anyone there, it's even worse than Head is. And unlike James he actually has point skills and can play the one.

So it makes no sense for Adelman to play Head at anything but the two, Francis or James at anything but the one, and all three players fit better in Adelman's system because Head and Alston could have the same role in Adelman's scheme.

But Alston is just too small to play two guard at all, while Head can at least try there. Alston is a 36% shooter from 3 left open (weak), while Head is a 44% shooter from 3 when left open (pretty good). Plus Head is a younger player that could possibly amount to something more, Alston isn't. It seems logical Alston goes. Do you rather have Alston or Head shooting that 3 in the playoffs?

Adelman does not demand that whatever player plays as he wants and where he wants and to however his system indicates like JVG. He has players that are capable of fitting his style, opens things up, then lets them play at a spot and role that they are well-suited to. For example he would have let Spanoulis drive the lane and get to the line. To Van Gundy that would have been a player doing what he was told not to do = doghouse. If said player doesn't play a role opposite to his strength and towards his weakness well = ride pine all year.

Things will not be metered out like that now.


Asking Francis to play 2 guard off the ball to me is somewhat similar to what JVG did to Spanoulis last year.

I think we all know that even asking T-Mac to play a Scottie Pippen role all year running the offense isn't right for T-Mac either. So having Francis and others in his best role, puts him again setting up more plays. Why? Just let Yao and Scola handle it. Again they are perfect for the Adelman high/low post. Scola and Yao both grew up with high post and trapezoid-shaped lane international play.

I think Adelman will use Francis exactly how he used Bobby Jackson only instead of being the 6th man he will likely start. Adelman will use James like he used Bibby, only instead of starting he will be instant offense off the bench.

But the offensive system will be well suited for Francis in a Bobby Jackson style of role. Having him play two guard and standing off the ball seems very much to me like how Van Gundy handled Spanoulis. There's no point in even having the player when coaches do these sorts of things as far as I am concerned.

Bobby Jackson had the ball but he was used as a finisher with the ball, as a different perimeter look versus Divac and Webber running high/low post with Peja on the wings. Bibby was the one that played a two guard style, yet was at the one spot and guarded other ones and he was the one that could play off the ball, shoot 3's, score, and other than that either Jackson or Bibby or Christie just had to get the ball to Webber or Divac and let them create.

James, Francis, and McGrady can handle that without Alston, also Yao and Scola can handle the high/low post.

Battier/Scola/Hayes/McGrady/Battier can handle the post feeding, specifically Yao or Scola to each other off high/low post much like Webber/Divac or Duncan/Robinson.

Battier/Head/Novak/James/McGrady will share the role of launching 3's off catch and shoots like Bibby and Peja and Jon Barry did on the Kings. All are better shooters than Alston is.

It really is MORE important in Adelman's offense that the point guard be able to score the ball, than it is in Van Gundy's offense, and LESS important in Adelman's offense that the point guard be able to run the offense and handle the ball, post feed, make decisions/plays than it is in Van Gundy's offense. And remember how important it was in Van Gundy's offense the point guard could score? It's more so with Adelman's offense, as much as this exposed Alston's lack of scoring in Van Gundy's system it simply seems wrong that Adelman and Morey would want him in Adelman's version of offense.

Yet so many fans here seem to think it is the other way around, that now all of a sudden Alston is important to run Adelman's offense. It's just not true at all, really Alston didn't fit Van Gundy's offense and he fits Adelman's even less. Look at the results in Van Gundy's offense, it was not good.

The talk of Rafer to Miami makes sense not just because he makes them better and they need a good backup to Williams, but also because he actually fits that offense.

Now Mike James was PERFECT for Van Gundy's offense, but see he is also just about perfect for Adelman's offense, a little bit less though because he will force up some shots he should not.

Francis was horrible in Van Gundy's offense, but he will be just right in Adelman's offense.

Truth is Lucas III and Spanoulis would have been much much better for Adelman's offense than Alston will be.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=254553

 

I see all of these people talking about the Assault charge and how that's going to make it tough to trade him and thus more likely to cut him. I'm not sure people here realize that he's charged with Class C Misdemeanor Assault. That's a type of assault that doesn't even carry jail time. If he was convicted and given the MAX punishment, it's a $500 fine. It's Assault - Offensive Contact not Assault - Bodily Injury. It's not like they're saying he beat the crap out of some guy, it is literally on the same level as a speeding ticket.

There might be other issues on trading Alston, but with the Rasheed Wallaces, Stephen Jacksons, and Ron Artests of the NBA - I don't think a ticketable offense (which is what Class C Assault is) is going to make Alston untradeable.

 

But, Alston does not posses half the talent as any of these players

 

Still, what Alston is accused of isn't half as serious as what those guys have done.

 

That's hardly the point. Whether or not Alston is tradeable will depend fully on his talent level. All I'm saying is his class c offense isn't going to make him any less desireable to other teams.

 

I agree with much of the Bobby Jackson to Francis comparison. But, Bobby Jackson only played about half the game (career 23 MPG guy), and his time was pretty much split at PG and SG, and when he played PG Christie or Webber or Valde initiated the offense.

Further, you would want to start "a PG who turns the ball over lot" when we have a guy with a very similar skill set who doesn't and probably plays better defense (James?).

Also, I said before Francis is going to have to adapt. He he plays the style like he did 5 years ago, with the skills/athleticism he has now--he is going to be a bit role player at best. Even at his top athletic form--which clearly he is not or Portland wouldn't have bought him out just for him to leave, he did a lot of bad things for an offense, despite some very good things he didas well.

Further, Francis has shown flashes as adapting. His 3 point shooting is way up since arriving to New York, and where he has primarily played SG. Head+ I think is the best case scenario. We want Francis to hit a high 3% off the ball, plus contribute to open court and slicing to the lane versus overplays. We don't want him to get in many ISOs he used to excell in, we have two far better options in Tmac and Yao, and possibly Wells, James and Scola are all better 3rd options. I see Francis as a key bench guy--backing up the SG and PG (if Alston is gone and Brooks proves not ready), and having more freedom in the 2nd unit than he ever would as a starter. Mike James will be the starting PG unless he falls of a cliff if in shooting and offensive efficiency.

 

I agree Rafer is a good fit for Miami. But I think they will see if Williams and Smush can handle it. But if Williams can't stay healthy and Smush is inadequate, both very possible, trading for Alston becomes very appealling again. Williams (expiring) + pick for Alston + whatever bad contracts we want to include might work for both.

I am confident Rafer will have a taker. Mia, Boston, LAC, Char, LAL--someone is going to get PG needy and Rafer will about as good as anyone else available without costing a small farm. If there is no solid deal now, hold.

 

Seriously guys, can we wait till at least preseason before we start making random predictions about people? There's way too many variables here to use information on Francis from New York, Orlando and his first stint in Houston as a viable means of predicting what will happen this season. New coach, new talent, much better talent, different roles, different style of offense and defense, completely different situation.

 

I think more importantly, there are gonna be injuries, so what gain could we have in cutting a capable player when we're gonna need him the first time someone sprains an ankle. The problem as I see it, is that we have 16 guys under contract, and we still have an offer extended to Deke, if he signs thats 17, so someone is gonna get cut. But JLIII, Landry (not sure if he's guaranteed) and Reed are much more likely to be cut than Alston.

Yao-Butler
Scola-Hayes-Reed-Landry
Battier-Bonzi-Novak
T-mac-Head-Snyder
Francis-James-Alston-Brooks-JLIII

 

It always amaze me that how so many of you just assume that Adelman will used the same offense as the kings of a few years back. What Adelman can do is that he is versatile, where he play according to the players strength not getting players that play in a certain style. One thing is confirm is that he will play the motion offense, there is many variations of it, he used the high post with webber, he play wing post with bonzi and artest, i never seen games of portland when he is coaching there, but i do read comments from other journalist that he do play with low post players there.

All this shows that Adelman will have the offense setup for different guys. He already mention he wants Tmac to get the ball at scoring position, he already mention about movement by scola will be good for Yao, all this shows he is going to play a different way to accommodate the 2 star players.

So talks about francis and james = bobby jackson and bibby, is premature. One thing that you can be sure about james is that he is just a greedy old man with too high of self opinion, just see the way he was last season at wolves. He goes from starter to 6th man to backup for foye.

The only reason portland released francis, its because they are getting younger, they want to released off big contracts which is not needed, and they want to play an inside game where their future and strength lies.

Infact, when francis is available, look at the number of teams that is going after him, Dallas, Miami comes to mind, this proves that in the eyes of NBA scouts, GM and Head Coaches, francis do have certain value.

We will all wait and see how francis recover from his injury, but i just cant wait to see the alley-hoop-jam by francis via special delivery from yao. Francis may be selfish but he carried the team when he is here, he provide leadership and guidance to Yao. So for that only i'm willing to see how francis turns out.

Back to the topic, I do rate Alston as a rox starting PG, he be shooting bricks and floaters that never touch the rim, but he can help to pass the ball to the right hands, thats what you need at the final quarter, a guy that knows his job, not james who will just shoot when he get the chance, nor francis that is as bad as a shooter as alston. Alston is too weak to body those big PGs and was never fast enough to cover the pick and roll, but he is a good defender that will fill up the passing lane(remember that 9 steals he got last season) thats his strong point.

Another thing that amaze me is how on earth alston get to shoot bricks and still get a respectable 0.363 and made 192 shots. Thats even better than Tmac but of coz Tmac take them with 2 hands in the face while alston got a wide open shot.

All in all, no matter what offense that is going to be used by adelman, one thing for sure, he will need a player that will distribute the ball around, and that is certainly not a strong point of both francis and james.

Regarding the PI case of alston, heck there is so many players that have more serious problem than him. And alston got into much more serious problem last time, that does not seem to discourage rox to trade for him.

One last thing, AB do look very nice, lets hope he turns out good.

 

This was very well and simply put and in my opinion, exactly correct.

 

Well I meant the way the word was being used in that context. Kinda like when people try to distinguish between 'best player' and 'best all-around player'. your mean.

 

I concur.

For all the talk about James being full of himself while Francis is a leader, James is the one who has shown he is capable of being an excellent role player on a great team (Piston's title team) and has a real good assist to TO ratio.

Second, Portland bought out almost all of Francis's contract and then went on to sign 27 year old Steve Blake to provide veteran leadership and point guard depth. They paid more money to chase Francis away and sign Blake than they would have to just keep Francis. Blake has a fraction of Steve's talents and may not be in the league any longer than Francis will. They must not have thought Francis 1) would be a good role model/fit/be a distraction, OR 2) wasn't going to get near his former self, maybe some of both. Yes some teams recruited Francis (for what role we don't know, probably bench scoring), but James is a much more solid bet as a PG.

 

Since when have 27 year olds been veterans? Portland is a couple of years away from being title contenders. By the time they get there Francis will be old and busted, but Blake will still be in his low 30s. Plus, by buying out Francis' contract they save about 10 million dollars. I don't think it has anything to do with Francis' talent. Assuming he's healthy, I think he's the starting PG. Mike James lost his starting job to a rookie, atleast Francis lost his job to a decent vet in Marbury. Plus, I don't think assist to turnover ratio is the best way to evaluate a PG since it is a disadvantage to penetrating PGs (like Francis).

 

My God are we STILL discussing this topic??

 

Trade him to Greece so he can back up V-Span.



All kidding aside, I think there is a good chance he gets bought out, I don't see him going to camp with the team, it could create chemistry issues.

DD

 

It's because that Sacramento Adelman offense would best fit Yao/Scola/T-Mac IMO.

The Portland Adelman offense really fit Drexler, Jerome Kersey, and Terry Porter better, but that style doesn't really fit T-Mac or Yao or Scola that well IMO .

 

Its time for the Adelman Golden State offense then