I'm in a grey area with JVG. I understand what he's brought to the team, but I also am completely aware of all of his glaring weaknesses... Now that Rick Carlisle is on the market, though, there is an out... In other words, I am ONLY ok with losing JVG if we get Carlisle in return. (I don't think any other good coaches will be on the market this off-season, and I don't really think we should bring in some unproven no-name when we're trying to contend right now.) It would definitely be an upgrade to get Carlisle, though. He is one of THE very best coaches in the league right now.
OK now this is where we must part company on this issue because you (and others such as DaD) are hellbent on blaming JVG for something that is really not his fault alone. The philosophy of the Rockets organization ever since the Tmac trade has been to build around Yao & Tmac - two supposed superstar players. The premise behind this line of thought was that their play would carry this team to a championship given the right "mix" of complementary players around them. I believe the exact words were to the effect of surrounding Yao & Tmac with "shooters" and ever since that time CD & Co. have been shuffling through players in order to make it happen. I'm sorry to report that 3 years down the line we are still waiting for that to happen but I digress. To that end, the offense was designed with the express intention of providing the majority of the offensive opportunities to Tmac & Yao. It was not, repeat, NOT, the intention to field a balanced team of players each one capable of contributing ala say Detroit. Nor was it a goal to bring along and develop any young players or to have a "deeper" bench. No, the expressed goal of this franchise was to "Win Now". Now, JVG's offensive scheme implements this goal perfectly which you, yourself, verify when you wrote that JVG has "a predictably rigid offensive scheme that relies overly on the individual plays of the two stars who are not 100% physically". This is exactly what they wanted to do so what is the problem? Well as you have pointed out, for the past 2 seasons the two star players have suffered injuries but I can't see blaming JVG as those were out of his control and that was an inherent risk in this approach which should have been understood and accepted by all who supported said approach. JVG's alleged failure for not developing the bench players was not something for which he should be responsible because it was never part of the equation. It has been quite clear that his primary purpose was to win games - PERIOD. Repeat: WIN NOW, not lose games while 2nd round draft picks & undersized FA players learned on the job, made mistakes and cost you wins and JVG did just that. Now, because he did exactly what the Rockets' organization wanted him to do and it didn't work, you want to lay the blame at his feet and his feet alone because it's the easy way out and it conveniently enables you to avoid looking at the real issue here - that maybe, just maybe, the original philosophy of building around these two "stars" was faulty to begin with but that would require looking at things with an open mind. In the end, from what I've seen here in threads like these, it's been much easier to blame the head coach instead.
HillBoy, you're right... but the main problem was that everyone disappeared on offense during the playoffs. The shooters would have been incredibly valuable if they were actually shooting well. The team was built with the right idea in mind (minus the PF position). We're not looking for an incredibly deep and well-balanced team (and hopefully we shouldn't need one with guys like Mac/Yao), but in addition to having our shooters make shots, we could still could use that one extra guy who can create something for himself or for teammates, preferrably off the bench... Bonzi or James was supposed to be that guy... Even the Lakers had that third guy for two of their three titles. By their third title, Kobe and Shaq were dominant enough to quell that need... but they also had shooters (like Robert Horry) who showed up for big games.
I actually agree with this. We need a power forward to help Yao more than we need to change coaches. What happened in that 3rd game- the 1st one for us in the playoffs with Utah..... We were close at the half- like within 4 to 5 points and came out flat as a pancake in the second half- 3rd Q. I realize this is on the players- but what was said in that locker room??????? One victory in Utah and IMHO we would have won that series. I realize this is not all on Van Gundy- but did he talk to them after the 1st half??????? Pep Talk- coffee -anything????
well put. about the claim that jvg has ruined the future by not developing role players and a deeper bench. 1) the rockets had a lack of depth before jvg even got here 2) the problem is that the team has too many role players and not enough guys who are versatile. battier defense. chuck, rebounding hustle. rafer - ball control. deke - rebound/defense. howard - mid range. luther - 3 pt specialist. Outside of the areas mentioned above those players cannot do much else very well. 3) the bench goes 7-8 with at the least 'decent' role players, the problem is that after yao and tmac the talent level significantly drops off. When your 4th and 5th best players are either rafer, luther, hayes or howard (take your pick)...then you are in trouble. Its a miracle the rockets contended as much as they did.
When I said that the team was built with the "right idea in mind", I forgot to add "but just not aggressively enough"... meaning we got the right kinds of players, but they were guys who just weren't good enough at their jobs. Like Rafer, for example, plays mostly the way we want a PG to play for us... but he just sucks at playing that way (or any way, for that matter). Same with guys like Snyder, and Howard (coming off the bench). So: Right idea, Wrong players. Only keepers other than the "Big Two" are Hayes, Head, and Battier, IMO... but none of them are untouchable assets...
what about bonzi? proven players...not proven punks. who is suitable to manage hayes/howard at PF, rafer/lucas at pg and deke and luther as the bench?
You can claim the Rockets current situation is due to the partial management problem and partial coach management. But someone must take responsibilities. CD is retired. Les wont fire himself. So, it leaves the Rockets with one option - FIRE JVG!. To claim the Rockets didnt have a bench when JVG arrived, so the Rockets deserves dont have a bench now is funny as HELL. Hello, it's been 4 years since JVG has coached this team. What the hell is Jerry Sloan doing playing all his rookies in the playoff against Warriors. This mofo continued to play his rookies in regular season even when everyone told him Dee Brown sucked. Jerry Sloan is a mofo that doesnt know how to coach. Yeah, JVG owes Sloan in a big way.
well sloan's rookies are better than the rockets rookies, no? Millsaps is looking like he can be a future borderline allstar and he is also better than our current starting pf. Sloan also didnt play brewer and brown as much against the rockets, i think you can get away with playing those guy more against a team like GS. As for the bench before he got..go back and look at it. its heinous. I think its pretty clear that even though the current bench is not spectacular, its much better then it was then
Let me tell you, the Jazz' rookies look better or not is not the main question. The main thing is Jerry Sloan sticked to play his rookies in regular season. As per Jerry Sloan's words, "I gonna find out what we get." - even if it means for the Jazz to lose a few games. And yes, there were people critized Sloan continued to play Dee Brown and cost the Jazz a few games. btw. Paul Millsap was 47 pick. The Rockets picked Lior Eliyahu at 44.
well that doesnt make me feel better (about millsap)...that guy can really ball. He could be scary good. lior...another wasted pick. lets add that one to the laundry list over the past 10 years
hey thats all I'm saying someone has to go and JVG is the first on the list...he is an underachiever who didn't bring clear results at the end. all of it is arguable and we already discussed it, but point blank we need changes now we can go deeper: get new guys or JVG! it's pretty obvious that guys need at least a year or two to adjust his system, and we clearly don't have the time, hey! its been 4 years! I am dissapointed as anyone else, especially wanting the Rockets to pass at least the first round, we could have gotten a free ticket with the golden state warriors, there was no doubt in my mind that we could beat them, but I said that also against the Jazz in game 7
1) yao is also an underachiever as is tmac and battier. why are they excempt? 2) 2 years to adjust? battier seemed to fit in quickly. tmac seem to get the idea after a few games when he got here. Wesley picked it up midseasson. etc
you seriously have too much time you post faster than anyone else here, I think you past dakota already
According to a Chinese website, Morey said the Rockets want JVG to stay for another season, though JVG's opinion is unclear. Now I am feeling blue. He is a decent coach but I just don't see how he can take this team to a Champship. It seems to me that the article strongly suggests that the brass wants JVG back for another year. Here is the link: http://sports.sohu.com/20070510/n249935786.shtml. Sorry if this has been discussed.
i think that the decision ultimately comes down to JVG. despite all the rumors, i think les and morey welcome him back if jvg chooses to do so.
