Since we've struggled playing the Suns over the years, there's a growing perception that we can't beat them because we can't match their speed. I'm really baffled by this thought process. First of all, I think Phoenix has been very fortunate when it comes to OUR health. Sure, they've dominated us these 2 seasons, but they haven't played against a fully healthy Rockets team many times. But what really bothers me is that everyone thinks we need speed to beat Phoenix. To me, it's the most inefficient and idiotic way to try and beat Phoenix. It's irrational. Phoenix has built their team on speed - they are THE fastest team in the NBA. Unless we have the deepest and most talented squad in league history, we're NOT going to beat an elite team at what makes them elite by trying to emulate them for 4 games per season. It's a bit cocky actually... To think that "If they want speed, we'll match them" with a make-shift line-up is ridiculous. They have mastered the art of up-tempo basketball, and unless we re-structure our entire roster (Yao included) to match them, we won't be able to do so with a combined 30M+ of our salary going to Battier, Yao, Howard, Mutombo and Wells. We have an identity. What we need to do is master our identity. It's quite simple really. We play defense, which creates misses. To make sure that the other team can't capitalize on those misses, we outrebound the other team regularly. Reducing that gap in possesions is key to beating a team like the Suns. So I say let's get healthy and let's stick to what we do best. I'd like to see Phoenix match our size. T-Mac and Yao are by far tallest in the league at their positions. Hayes and Mutombo provide muscle inside. Battier, Snyder and Wells all have good size as well. I bring this up because I see the team trying to run with the Suns sometimes. I'm curious to know why anyone would do such a thing when we are much better at doing what WE do. To add to that, I would definitely expect us to beat the Suns in a 7-game series with homecourt advantage. Playoffs slow the game down, and uptempo teams lose a lot of their weapons in the ocurse of a 7-game series. We won't have homecourt over the Suns this season, but the point I'm trying to make is I think health and homecourt are the only stumbling blocks to us beating the Suns. Discuss please.
The things is, if you wanna play a slow-tempoed game.. you better take the lead in the early game.. cuz once you fall behind, you lose patience, and you can't afford to play a slow game to catch up their score... so the way to beat suns is... try to take the lead early to force the SUNs to play at our tempo, and try not to let them get on a run, cuz once you fall behind, the game turns into their tempo. IMO, last year's Lakers provided a perfect method on how to beat suns, which is triangle offense. so, no matter what style or tempo a team plays, good offense execution + good defense will win games.
The Suns have trouble when guys like Kobe, Arenas, or T-MAC go off on them since they have no real way to guard them (the only above average one-on-one defender big enough is Marion, and it hurts them more when he gets fatigued or in foul trouble). T-MAC was the major reason we won 2 against them (in their place) 2 years ago. The only time he faced them this year, he hadn't found his comfort zone yet (he was out the last game during the midst of his hot streak). T-mac on fire alone is enough to beat the Suns... but its not enough to beat the Mavs (that's where they need Yao). Its damn frustrating to know that the limiting factor in beating the two best teams in the league is each of our star players respectively... but its never a given that both are intact.
Suns suck without Nash. Wear him down with hard fouls, harder picks, and harder screens. Double him early, make him give up the rock. Once that's been accomplished, Suns are Done.
The Suns will always let you back into the game. It's amazing, the teams that gives them the biggest challenge (Minny and Utah) we kill those teams. WE MUST RUN THE SHOT CLOCK FOR 20 seconds or a layup. Skip the jumpers and go to the hole all day. We punish Amare down low with Yao and get him into foul trouble. Chase them off the 3 point line. Rebound on the defensive end, that's where Kirk comes in, Bonzi would have never out raced Jameer Nelson for the Rock. I like this lineup against Phoenix Yao - Amare (concerned with the high pick and roll with Nash, Jeff's has his X's cutout for him to stop this) Tmac - Bell Battier - Marion Rafer - Nash Juwan - Diaw or K Thomas
We didn't have size till this season, till Battier, Snyder, Bonzi came ... if we want to match up with them, just put Chunk, Battier, Snyder, Bonzi and t-mac (as PG) on the court, that will be a hell team. But we waste Yao's offense talent in that way.
Cannot double Nash. He can find the right guy under double. I'd rather let him score but we have to cut his passing.
It depends on where you double Nash. He can't be double teamed the whole game, but we can switch out from time to time an double team him further out on the floor and get him to give up the ball away from the basket.
You make a very valid point Ehsan. If we analyze last year's playoff outcome , it is readily observable how the Spurs made the big blunder of trying to match the Mavs small ball. If you put smaller players on the floor, there is less shotblocking and more room for penetration. Nothing illustrates the folly of the Spurs strategy more than the closing moments in one of the playoff games when Nowitzki drove by his defender and the only help defender available who tried to block his shot was Manu Ginobili, the result? a three point play for Nowitzki. Also, they got burned by Devin Harris due to the lack of shotblockers defending against penetration. Miami, on the other hand played a balanced line-up, as a result, Devin harris couldn't do anything inside because Alonzo Mourning and Haslem were there to defend. The spurs played with only Duncan as the legitimate shotblocker and once he got beat they were helpless. I sincerely believe if the Spurs just kept a balanced lineup by playing Nazr Mohammed or Nesterovic in that series alongside of Duncan and /or Robert Horry, they would've won that game. The same thing with the Suns, we need to play with our strengths and play our game. We need a good mix of zone and man to man defense to keep up with them. We need to play some kinda zone to address the High pick and roll play they run with Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire so that Yao does not have to go up all the way to the three point line. A zone neutralizes the pick and roll but it leaves outside players open. So a good mix would be appropriate. But I'm not too worried with our chances since we have two MVP contenders in our line-up that are both match-up nightmares for the suns. We really haven't seen Yao and Tmac playing together in MVP form because tmac got back treatment and returned after yao went out.
I think the really only way we can win is if we can get Nash into foul trouble, maybe Snyder or VSpan driving on Nash early.
The key is how to keep our offense work. Once our offense chokes, Suns profit a lot on it, because their can score within a few seconds after the rebound. JVG should study the tapes on when and how our offense met a problem in previous games.
I like the idea of allowing him to score and score often while disallowing the others from geting off (like what Dallas did last season). Also putting Mac on him or Snyder or Battier late in the game will bother him. He is not necessarily a quick PG and size does bother him. We can beat the suns - they hadly post up like the Mavs and they are only abot 7 deep unlike the Mavs that keeps sending fresh bodies endlessly. Whatever Washington, Wolves and Utah did to beat them, we could use those ideas as well. But with my man JVG sometimes he is too stubborn for him own good (see the Mutombo-Dallas match up issues we faced in the last 2 encounters with the Mavs).
Everybody is right. We should play our game, don't get sucked in to taking the quick, open 3 balls, and pound the ball in the paint with Yao early and often.
Ehsan, you make very good points. The bottom line to beating the Suns is getting back on defense to stop their easy fast break points. You make them play offense each and every possession and their efficiency goes way down. The Suns don't like playing halfcourt offense for long periods of time and they get frustrated, anxious and will turn the ball over. This is why they give up leads so much. As has been mentioned before, you must focus on cutting off Nash's passing lanes and make him hog the ball. You cannot defend them like other teams. On offense, we take what is given. No way we should run the clock down and pass up good shots. The key is to be efficient with each possession. When fast breaks are there, take 'em. After the ball goes in the air, our backcourt players have to focus on getting back on defense instead of crashing the offensive glass. liu1107, 2 seasons ago, we trailed the Suns by 13 midway through the 3rd quarter, in Phoenix. We won the game 127-107 doing what I mentioned above. Playing them from behind isn't hard at all because you know it's likely they will leave the door wide open for a comeback. I don't know why so many people here think Marion is such a great defender. He never has been. The improvement in the Suns defense is because they play harder than before and use their athleticism. Their schemes and help still don't impress me. With both stars in the lineup, we should shred them. BackNthDay, I like your matchups but Juwan can't successfully guard Diaw when he comes to play. (Then again Diaw disappears a lot). That would fall on Chuck, Bonzi or Snyder. Also consider when they sub Barbosa for Diaw (we counter with Head). That's how I see us matching up with their Big 6. We should stop the Suns worship. In a 7 game series, we can take them. The Lakers had their chance last season but they crumbled. Our team has the horses to finish the job. I'm looking forward to March 12 and April 16.
Yea, but he's not big enough (or strong enough) to stick with the T-mac that is dominating right now... they'd have to try to slow him down with Marion.
i agree with that strategy of letting Nash hog the ball. It will wear him out because it takes or consumes much more energy to dribble the ball than to pass the ball. There is a type of trapping defense that advocates letting one player dribble the ball the whole length of the court repeatedly to wear him out. Everyone else denies the passing lane. I've tried this strategy with a small local team I once coached and it is really effective in wearing out the opposing players. I saw the timberwolves implement this strategy against the lakers in the playoffs and it actually gave them a couple of wins against the formidable Kobe-shaq lakers. Imagine, if you have to dribble the ball the length of the court for the entirety of 48 minutes and shoot as well as defend on the other end. Basically, if we let Nash carry their offense and make him work on the defensive end it will wear him out. Also, a well-known tactic to guard against the fast break is when they get the defensive rebound, one player remains behind to pressure the rebounder so that he doesn't have an opportunity to pass immediately while the other players are getting back. A defensive rebounder will not be able to pass right away if he is bothered by a pesky defender... Most players such as Deke will usually try to shoo the defender away by flailing their elbows and this buys time for the others to get back on defense.
I don't think there's a team in the league that controls the tempo better than the Phoenix Suns. They force you to run hard defensively in transition and chase their PG all over the court in the half court. San Antonio seems to play against them well, consistently -- maybe we should look closely at what they do against Phoenix.
I like this lineup against Phoenix Yao - Amare (concerned with the high pick and roll with Nash, Jeff's has his X's cutout for him to stop this) Tmac - Bell Battier - Marion Rafer - Nash Juwan - Diaw or K Thomas[/QUOTE] What about this lineup?? Rafer - Nash Bonzi/Snyder - Bell Battier - Marion Tmac - Diaw Yao - Amare If Tmac can hang with Dirk, why not Diaw??
Honestly, I think we actually play the Suns better when Yao is not on the floor. And considering that Yao will likely be even less mobile on his return, he can turn out to be a serious defensive liability for us against Phoenix. This matchup probably gives us the best chance against their starting 5: Rafer - Nash Luther - Bell Battier - Marion T-Mac - Diaw Hayes - Amare
