fly75, how old are you? seriously...no sarcasm intended. most men don't stop growing until they are AT LEAST 21. with growth comes weight. and after 21, with weight training, comes lots of pounds...given you have the frame to support it. i didn't stop growing (height wise) until i was 24 or 25 years old. 1/2 an inch here, 3/4 of an inch there. when i left high school, i was barely scraping 6'2. at this point, i'm ALL of 6'4 - at least. look at griffin's frame...he's not built like KG. KG has a long, thin, narrow frame that couldn't support 260# if he wanted to. hell, he probably won't see that weight until he retires. griffin, on the other hand, is long, lean (227#+) and has very wide shoulders and very long arms. you tell me, physiologically, how he can't or "more than likely won't" put on 2 inches and 30 lbs. you know, even if he doesn't, it doesn't matter. forget the inches. hell, hakeem and zo ain't but 6'10 themselves (allegedly). the more important issue is the weight. with the proper training, he can EASILY put on 30 pounds. as for his game, the rasheed comparisons hold SOME weight (pardon the pun), but griff actually has an inside game, too. he won't display it that much against bigger, stronger players (self-explanatory) but watch him against players his size or smaller. he'll balance out the outside game with a dose of post moves, as well. welcome to the new breed of centers. actually, it isn't "new" at all. we just watched 17+ years of it in houston. that's not meant to compare him with hakeem. there is only one "original". the point is that he (griff) has the game mentality and the physique to do everything i've mentioned in this - all too long - post. even if he stays a PF, it was still stupid for jersey. sure, you have kenyon martin already, but he could EASILY be the next sam bowie or kerry kittles. after the first leg injury, i was piqued. after the second, i'm concerned. griff would have been a brilliant insurance policy if not legitimate replacement. legit height, legit game - something kenyon, IMO, never had. as is, they got a borderline *potential* player in jefferson. notice, you haven't heard the rave reviews on jefferson that you've heard on griff. the difference? talent, baby. pure, raw, talent. you don't trade a potential superstar for a potential starter and 2 other potential contributors. had they selected zach randolph (nets via rockets) i wouldn't be making this argument. zach's gonna be legit, if he can contain the baby fat and learn to pass the damn ball. but hey, if "ifs and buts were candy and nuts" we'd all be in chunkyville.
LOL vj23k, "No...I imagine he has grown since 1985." That was funny! Shandon Anversen - I totally agree with you. Even if EG doesn't grow taller he will put on weight with the body he has. It's just natural for some one with his frame, he's not skinny and thin like Marcus Camby was, Carlos Rogers or KG is. He's got a Medium Frame, I would say similar to Tim Duncan's. I'm alittle older than 19 and I know I have put on at least 10 pounds since H.S. Take alook at the majority of basketball players from their rookie years to their 3rd or 4th season, they look more bigger. I seen Kobe since his rookie year and trust me I know he has gotten at least 2 inches taller and added 10 or more pounds. On a Laker halftime show interview with Kobe back when he got the starting job when Eddie Jones got traded, Chick said to kobe you have been working in the summer and look like you have added muscles and are about 6-8 or 6-9 now..., and kobe agreed saying yes and something else(I just always remembered that becuase at that time I was thinking he could play SF why trade E. Jones[ I really liked him]). Anyways back to EG, he's aready 6'10 and 230lbs(IMHO) if he adds 15 or 20 lbs and does not grow he can pratically match up physically with most of the centers in this league. Personally I think he will grow to about 6'11 and 245lbs, if not than for certain 6'10 and 240lbs in my opinion.
I completely agree, verse. The real issue for Griffin to turn into one of the "new breed" of centers is weight. If he puts on 25-30 lbs, he will be right about the same size as Olajuwon in his prime. That has certainly proved to be big enough for a center. As for the feasability of putting on 25-30 lbs of muscle and mass in 3 years, Marcus Camby and Loren Woods BOTH put on 20-25 lbs of muscle in ONE year for their respective teams. Hitting the weight room hard, it is entirely feasible that Griffin will be the right weight to play center for the Rockets in 2-3 years. Any additional height he may acquire between now and then is gravy.
Griffin might bulk up to Olajuwon's level or even surpass him but he is not as explosive or as dominating as Olajuwon, even compared at same age. This is just wishful thinking. Comparision is an insult to one of the greatest center who has ever touched this game. Please remember, Hakeem did not even start playing basketball until his late teens. He was learning the game from scratch when in UH. To achieve what he has from where he had started is just remarkable. Even as raw talent he could rebound, block and steal with the best of them. The man is in all-time top 10 in steals for carrers for crying out loud, as a CENTER! And we are not even going to go into his array of moves and his redifinition of center game. Most people who had seen Hakeem play at UH for their first time knew they were witnessing something special, something rare that comes along every half a century or so and leaves his mark on the game for ages.
Who didn't Zach abuse in the summer league? Without illegal D, Griffins' shotblocking skills are what make him a good defender... Yes, man to man he isn't great nor good... But, who says he will be a man to man defender? Who says he won't play some zone, either as the man in the middle, or as a weak-side help defender? Tell me which young big men (18-21 years old) have great defense... Zach Randolph doesn't really... You think Curry can play defense? Fact is, that no many players can come in and instantly become defensive stoppers... Part of defense is knowing your opposition's strength and weaknesses, which has a LOT to do with experience... Obviously, Griffin isn't going to collect his Social Security check anytime soon... The fact that he can block shots, is reason enough for me to believe that in the right defensive system (one which allows him to roam around the basket), Griffin can be a good defender...
In terms of skills and style, there's no comparison between Griffin and Olajuwon... Size-wise maybe... But I think that game-wise, Griffin could be a David Robinson type...
All the mock drafts had him down as Tim Duncan. If he grows THAT much, then maybe we have a Tim Duncan? I say he gets to 6'11 MAX.
Old enough to know I stopped growing at 18. AFAIK, a very large percentage of the general population doesn't grow more than a 1/2" taller after 18. Guess you could consider yourself exceptional As far as Griffin turning into a center, I would suggest that Jermain O'Neal might be a fairer comparison. Took him 4 years of apprenticeship before he was traded and got pressed into service as a center for the Pacers last year. Put up good rebounding numbers, lots of blocks- but the Pacers still consider his best position PF, and their interior defense was weaker than it was with Dale Davis. Maybe you consider Jermaine O'Neal a budding superstar, but he's still not there yet in my book. After 5 years, and not with his original team. Nets certainly don't have the luxury of waiting on a player like Griffin to develop in 3 to 4 years, especially after acquiring Kidd. If you saw his reaction to being drafted by the Nets, it was obvious EG wasn't going to be a happy camper here. He already knows what it's like to be jeered at in the CAA by the home crowd.
Fobinator, I think you missed the point. NO ONE is saying that Griffin will be as good as Olajuwon. What we are saying is that, if you compare the sizes of the two players, in 2 to 3 years, they could easily be about the same size. Now, knowing that, several of us are theorizing that, at that time, Griffing could be our center. Does a Rockets center have to be as good as Olajuwon to be our "center of the future"?
fly75, dude, you're racking my brain with that one acronym. AFAIK? damnit, i got the point of what you were saying, but i'll be damned if i can't figure that one out !! jermaine o'neal is NOT a good comparison, either. first of all, jermaine has small shoulders. that said, jermaine HAS put on considerable weight since he got in the league. how can you mention o'neal without acknowledging that fact? if jermaine can put on weight (and, boy, was he a stick or what???), why can't griff? anyway, i wouldn't have used j-oneal 2ndly, because he got royally SCREWED in portland. dude was buried on the bench and NEVER got the chance to develop. this past season was the first time he had a chance to actually PLAY. why do you think he left portland in the first place?! j-oneal has mad game. that said, he's not comparable - game-wise - to griff. i think griff's frame is wider, and could carry even more weight. but if you know that oneal can put on the amount of weight he has - then you KNOW that griff can! and the nets COULD have waited 3 years. are they gonna win anything this year, with the team they have? hell naw. better to take griff, if you ask me. and yea, griff was not very happy about going to jersey. but hey, i can't blame him. nj doesn't exactly have a winning tradition, and i don't think he wanted to stay in the area, anyway. damn, what has houston become? refuge for the disgruntled draft pick??!!! we are the oakland raiders of the NBA !!
AFAIK = As Far As I Know Griffin will probably add 10 lbs or so over time. That would put him around 235-240, or up 30+ lbs from his weight in high school only 2 years ago. Maybe he'll hit the weights and gain the additional strength and weight he needs to make the move to center. If the CHicago pre-draft camp was a true indication of his strength, he certainly needs to spend some time pumping iron. Unlike O'Neal, EG will get playing time. But who is going to school him in the fine art of banging- Mo Taylor? O'Neal learned while practicing against the likes of Brain Grant and Rasheed Wallace, even if he didn't get the PT. There's a perception out here in NJ that Griffin put his personal stats ahead of team goals. Maybe that's because Seton Hall went from a preseason Top 10 team to a disappointing first round ouster in the NIT. Maybe it's because the Pirates had problems keeping other team off the offensive boards- even though Griffin and Dalembert were first round picks in this year's draft. EG has skills, but he's not a lock, even at PF. And he's a project at center- IF he gets stronger IF he grows IF he adds enough weight IF he learns the position. That's a lot of suppositions. Nets weren't interested in keeping him, even if you think they were shortsighted in trading his rights away. Guess we'll have to wait 2 years or so to see who's right on this one.
EG will never be as good as Olajuwon. He just doesn't have the explosive athleticism that separated Hak from the best. Hakeem had explosive athleticism? I never saw it.
fly75, i could be mistaken, but didn't the nets say something to the effect that... one of the reasons they didn't want griff was because of potential personality problems (attitude, etc.). since they've been burned before by high-talent, questionable history guys, they wanted to go with the "good citizens"? did you hear anything about that, also?
I don't remember anything like that, verse. Personally, I didn't think that the Nets were so stupid in trading Griff. They had good reasoning behind it. If they didn't like his personal problems of years past, then that is one thing. But there are other questions of Griffin. Personally, I don't think they are going to be of any consequence, but the Nets already had set their hopes in KMart and Keith Van Horn. That didn't leave much room for Griffin. So I didn't see a problem with them trading Griffin. What I WAS surprised with was what they got in return for Griffin. It seems to me that they could have been able to drive a harder bargain. Was 3 mid to late first round picks really the going price of a player that was the consensus #1 pick only a week before the draft? Who knows, maybe that was all they could get for Griffin, but I would have thought they could have gotten much more.
I think NJ was eyeing J. Richardson or S. Battier in the Draft but since both were taken before their pick, they didn't want another SF-PF to add to their team. I personally think that they picked E. Griffin because the rockets picked it for them in a pre-arranged trade. I do remember NJ saying they didn't want EG if they had kept the pick because he was to them a head case(punching 2 team mates on different occasions in one years span does seem to be a problem if your a owner of a team). If NJ had kept the pick they would have taken someone else, not selecting EG in the draft. My point is that NJ would not have kept EG, they never wanted him.
I believe the Nets were planning to draft Richardson or Battier. Odds are that one of them would have been available if Griffin had been picked earlier. Once Marbury had been traded for Kidd, pretty much precluded any HSer- the current Nets management has a 2 year window to get things squared away. The story is that the Nets and Rockets had talked about a scenario where Griffin fell to #7 before the draft. There have been rumors that Radmanovich was pretty high on the Nets draft board, and they rolled the bones to see if he would be available at #13. Had they drafted him, I'm not so sure that Van Horn wouldn't be on the block. They also passed on Zach Randolph, and Loren Woods with later picks, who were available when the Nets drafted Jason Collins, Brandon Armstrong and Brian Scalabrine. Ability to hit a jump shot, and willingness to play defense, and personality figured large in the Nets draft.
