That was a well thought out post, just dont see how it pertains to the post you quoted. I like Andrea Bargnani; skilled offensive game, good shotblocker; NBADraft has him listed as a Dirk type. I think he's more of an Arvydas Sabonis myself...
Unfortunately the Rockets are locked in to Swift/Howard for the time being. Swift will probably be the first guy in for Yao too without Mt. Mutumbo. So you would have to say replacing Wesley with with a SG with some height would be the top priority for this draft... Brewer? Roy? not a #1's, so trade down and save some money? A second thought (one I don't want to have) is a small forward that can keep you competitive IF, IF.. (you Know) That would be Gay, but if Tmac stays healthy that's a lot of money on the bench. You can't say what the deal would be, but probably we would do best trading the pick.
I don't see noah playing well in the NBA as in college he needs to bulk up, his first two seasons he will be pushed around he might be something in 5-7 years, but for right now, he is going to spend some time on the bench
i cant get the idea that tyrus thomas=stromile swift outta my head. both went to lsu. stro was a beast and thomas is own his way to becoming a beast
Noah, as a rookie out of college this year, would be a significant upgrade over Howard and Swift at the 4 spot for us. You don't understand how bad Howard is. The only thing most people see is Howard knocking down that 16 footer. They don't watch the rest of the game him getting beat like a drum night after night on the defensive end. Oh, he's always in the right place granted. In the right place standing or moving very slowly and getting beat. Just isolate Howard and watch him over the course of a game. He's terrible. Noah at 215 lbs couldn't possibly be worse. Look, Rafer has more blocked shots this season than Juwan does, that's how bad it is.
Ya, let's not forget that Stro was a beast in college, while Tyrus seems to play w/ more heart, he's only been playing bball since his Junior year in high school. They kinda look alike as well. As my buddy put it, "they both have that confused look."
I recall someone saying here saying they watched Stro in college and he appeared to also have heart back then.
Several myths has been thrown out in this thread; 1. Noah is not as athletic as many have proffessed so far. His athleticism is about average - anyone who follows college basketball regularly would understand. 2. Noah's upside is not good enough to warrant batting an eye. He will likely not be as good as Tyson Chandler is now. 3. He is an average rebounder. 4. He has poor footwork on offense. 5. He may never have a jump shot or any sort of offensive game worth a damn. He will likely not be a Ben Wallace either or an enforcer. ---------- Much of what he is enjoying now is CBS and ESPN hype. Pops Bonsu Mensah has more athleticism and upside than him. He blocks more shots but you never hear anyone mention his name. Switch him with Noah and you will get more from him in Gators uniform and no one will know who Joakim is. I am confident that when the dust settles, Joakim will get good advice and return to school. If I am a GM I will not draft him in the first round or at least the first 23 picks. For now, he is only a Ryan Bowen that blocks shorts with a little less hussle. We are already trying to get rid of flying Ryan - we would not want to compound our stiffness problem. More to come.
I agree with all of your #'d list. Though I don't feel the same about Pops...he's better in some ways, but I don't think he'd have produced thesame in a Gators uniform. Also, I don't know that Noah will get that good advice and return to school when his stock--as you well know because of this hype--will ever be higher. And finally, I don't agree that he's a Ryan Bowen. Yes, he's overrated in both our opinions...but geez, the guy has SOME skill on both ends and is not purely hustle and body positioning..
EXCELLENT post...but like kaleidosky said, i dont think its really fair to compare him to bowen...rybo might be the most offensively challenged player in the L right now...tyson chandler sounds like a good comparison to me as for tyrus thomas, "they both have that confused look." sounds about right, hes a freak athletically, but hes gonna have to stay in school a couple years and learn the nuances of the game id take aldridge if we kept the pick (although id be more in favor of trading it)...ive watched him firsthand all season, and there isnt a more polished big man on both sides of the court IMO, he just needs to beef up a little bit
Wow, this is almost too much...I'm not even sure if you're serious! I don't have a problem at all if you don't think Noah should be the first player taken, but if you're going to start making wild claims, at least try and back it up with supporting evidence. What exactly are you using as your standard for "average"? I find this confusing, as I follow college basketball regularly but still don't understand. His one overwhelming positive trait in the eyes of scouts is his athleticism. I could provide some links to scouting reports, but then you might say that it's because of the CBS/ESPN consipiracy to mask Noah's average athleticism by pumping up his scouting report. By average, are you saying that there are just as many guys who are MORE athletic as there are who are less? In other words, out of, say, 10 PF drafted, 5 will be more athletic than Noah? That's crazy and it makes me wonder if you're actually the one who doesn't follow college basketball. There is not a 6'9" player or taller in this draft that is more athletic than Noah and that includes Lamarcus Aldridge. What is this based on? You just make that claim, but nothing else. What I see is a kid that just turned 21, who has an established reputation as a hard worker, who improved by astronomical amounts between his freshman and sophomore years. Therefore, I draw a conclusion that the kid is still learning the game and will continue to improve. Is that perpetuating a myth? By the way, Tyson Chandler, for all of his faults, is an above average athlete and if you're going to use him as a comparison, then you might want to amend point #1. Noah averaged 7.1 rebounds/game while playing 24.9 minutes. As a comparison, Lamarcus Aldridge averaged 9.2 rebounds in 33.7 minutes. A two rebound difference over the span of 10 minutes is not a big difference. I think Aldridge is a good rebounder, certainly above "average", so in my mind, Noah (with comparable numbers) might be above average, too. Your boy Pops Mensah Bonsu averaged 6.7 rebounds in 25.3 minutes. I don't know about you, but my guess is that more rebounds in less time is pretty good evidence that one is a better rebounder. But this could also by a myth. I'm not going to quote points 4 and 5 because I agree with #4 in that Noah has a raw low post game right now, while #5 is pure opinion and impossible to dispute objectively. Your opinion is your opinion. But one last quote... Mensah Bonsu averaged 1.7 blocks/game in, again, 25.3 minutes. Noah averaged 2.4 blocks/game in 24.9 minutes. Again, this translates to more blocks in less time. So how does Pops block more shots?? Again, if you don't think he's worthy of the first pick, I can accept that. But it's hard to take what you say seriously when you're flat out wrong on so many points. To also say that if you were a GM, not only would you pass on Noah once with the first pick, but with 22 other picks that follow...I think you could use a dose of objectivity because if he comes out this year, there's no way he's dropping to 24 or beyond. It's a good thing for the teams picking 1-23 that you aren't their GM. I can't wait...
look Kirilenko - is he also too skinny and can't play D ???? Camby is also toooo skinny. And so Marion etc. Noah is skinny and moving fast. I read from somewhere, that he has best motor in NCAA. I would love to have PF who can run all night long. I'd take Noah and trade Swift to Nets or Juwan somewhere for Salary cap relief
Look at Camby's career... while he is a good player when he's healthy he is hurt more than he's healthy. I do think that Noah's best case is a Camby type player which ain't bad but we are talking #1 pick here. Comparing Noah to Kirilenko and Marion is a joke though, first of all Marion ain't skinny but that is beside the point. Kirilenko and Marion are the two most well rounded and freakishly athletic (Stoudamire is hurt) post players in the league. They can both handle the ball, shoot from range, post up, rebound, block, steal, and defend players from 1-5. Noah is not comparable to either. Oh, triplebogey I think that Fegwu's standard for athleticism is Power forwards in the western confernce and his assesment of Noah being average is dead on if not a little high.
I have seen Joakim play many times upclose at the O'Connell Center --yes his offensive game outside the paint is raw but you are WAY off! Not athletic--are you kidding? Did you watch any of the NCAA tournament? Not as good as Tyson Chandler?? First of all the kid plays with passion , and he brings it every night which is more than I can say for Stro or Chandler. He totally fires up his teammates because he is working so hard on both offense and defense, and it almost shames his teammates to work as hard. We could use someone like that on our team. He's a total gym rat and he's obsessed with getting better. No one has improved more from his freshman year to his sophomore year. He has told the local papers his goal for the summer is to bulk up and gain at least 15 pounds so its too early to characterize him as too skinny. Plus he was 6'5 only 3 years ago, he may be just getting used to that 7 foot body. But the kid is athletic as hell...
The Rockets need to draft fire more so than skills. We have a lot of guys with different skills on our teams -- we just don't have any fire. It's pretty sad that because our average starting PG was hurt all year, we didn't have the same toughness as last season. Sura made the Rockets what they were last year. Drafting a Aldridge or Gay, people known for their lack of desire at times, would be a HUGE mistake IMO. That's why I like Noah so much - I mean just watch the kid play. He's a defensive PF with Sura's mentality -- something we've been begging for. Blocking shots has a lot to do with timing as it does athleticism, and I think Noah is great in both areas. This guy was buried on the bench last year, and now he's worked himself into the lottery. I'm not worried about him not "developing" a short jump shot game, as he obviously has a great work ethic. As far as him not going to be able to guard Brand, Duncan, Dirk, Etc... uh.. who can? You think Aldridge will do better than him? Everyone is always looking for the perfect, all-star fit at one of our weak positions. "Why can't we get a PF that cleans the glass, can hit the open jumper with consistency, and is good at defense to help Yao." Well we can, we'd just have to trade for a Duncan, Brand, etc. They don't exist, no role player you'll find will excel in every area. I think based on Noah's improvement and our lack of production from the PF spot, he'd be the best bet. But like it was said before, we still got Swift/Howard on our payrolls, so one of them would likely have to go first.
That's a good point. For that, I could understand the Noah pick. (For the record, I'm against Aldridge and Gay.) But hmm...if drafting for "fire" alone, could argue to put Morrisson or Redick at the 2 next to TMac.. for the negatives those guys may have, they surely have some passion for the game..
The hits just keep on coming. Okay, just to clarify before I go on, what you're agreeing with is that BEST case scenerio for Noah is that he's more athletic than HALF of the PF in the Western Conference and less athletic than the other half (this is the definition of average, afterall). What's more, you're also saying that, from your perspective, he is below average...meaning that there are more PF in the Western Conference that are MORE athletic than him than there are PF less athletic. Correct? I did some checking and here is a list of starting PFs in the Western Conference: Dirk Nowitzki - Dallas Tim Duncan - San Antonio Pau Gasol - Memphis David West - NO/OKC Juwan Howard - Houston Kelvin Martin - Denver Mehmet Okur - Utah Chris Wilcox - Seattle Kevin Garnett - Minnesota Zach Randolph - Portland Troy Murphy - Golden State Elton Brand - LA Clips Kwame Brown - LA Lakers Kenny Thomas - Sacramento Amare Stoudamire - Phoenix So, when you look at this list, you think the more than half of these guys are more athletic than Joakim Noah?!? That's laughable. I only consider 5 guys on this list to be more athletic: KMart, Wilcox, KG, Brand, and Amare. Tell me who you think is a better athlete if you disagree. Further reality is that Noah is 6'11" and to directly compare the athleticism of a guy that size with somebody who's 6'8" like Brand or 6'7" like Kenny Thomas is pretty shaky logic.
