To the original poster RocketsFan95: Your rambling boils down to this: We should NOT fire Gumpy because 1. Everybody makes mistakes, 2. Chinese fans don't like him. That's pretty f****** $h*tty logic. Where is this "Chinese fans vs. Gundy" &h*t coming from? Shouldn't JVG prepare the team a little better when one star player goes down? If everything is determined by the health conditions of EVERY player, then why not just get a squirrel sitting on the bench, instead of paying 5 mil. a year for a coach? That at least will be more entertaining.
Some old disgusting crap like the YOF thing -- attack/label people to make your point. That's just weak and ignorant. Let me tell you one thing, you may be proud to be a fans since 95, but many Chinese fans started to follow NBA since 1992. And the CCTV doesn't broadcast only Yao's game (not even cover all Yao's games), but also show a lot of other teams together with a lot of techincal break downs, NBA history, team/player overview and analysis, etc. Regarding that yaoming.net, since you know Chinese so well, you should read the Chinese version instead of English one. There you can see detail and muture technical analysis as good as this board. And you can find many JVG supporters together with many JVG haters, just like this board. Surprise, right? I guess you put this sh*t out just for preparation when anybody question your point, you'll ask 'r u Chinese' then 'oh then your point is worthless'. What a brilliant idea. As for JVG, I've opted to let him go for a long time. Yes he may have developed Yao, but I just don't see him leading the team to a title after watching his experiment for 3 years.
Will JVG ever be able to beat Suns? He has shown us that he has no answer to AMare-less Phoenix even with both Yao and T-Mac on cout. JVG is enough for a good team, but short of BBall IQ to win a title.
almostReady, No, that was NOT my conclusion or reasoning. Let me try to make my points again: 1. Everyone on the Rockets team is responsible for a bad season. JVG has his fair share of the blame. In fact, in my follow-up of the posts, I agreed with many critics that people on him, and cited that it was his weakness. 2. However, I do not think he deserves to be fired just because of this bad season, because I think he is a good coach. His overall achievement during the 3 years here convinced me. 3. I am tired of that people bashing him every chance they have. Most of the bashes are from yaoming.net, and mostly happen to be Chinese. I speculated a little on the reasons why. So don't be too excited about it. I am equally irratated if the bashes are from an American, an Mexican, or an European. Now go back to read my original post and see if you conclude a little differently this time. If you still make the same conclusion, then your ability in logical will be in serious question. This post was for defending JVG, but I am not really his fan. I am a Rockets fan. If firing JVG (for whatever reason) could make our team much better, I would be all for it. But I DO NOT THINK SO. Firing JVG gets us nowhere. We need to be patient when things are not going the way we projected. almostReady, please, oh please do not insert that capitalized word "EVERY" into my original sentence for your interpretation. That would alter the meaning of my post. We really do not need EVERY players healthy to be a good team. But with our current team structure (the fact that most of the talent is centered around Yao and T-Mac only), we will have a serious problem if either of them is injured. Is this a problem to be solved? Absolutely! But remember, the team building is still a work in progress. When we assemble more right pieces/telent around our two big guns, and develoop more chemistry as a team, then we will be a much better team, and depend much less on franchise players being healthy the same time.
fire his arse. better coaches have been fired for less. why make him an exception? houston should focus on bringing in a coach with Rocket red blood. that worked with Rudy T. Mike Dunleavy was my first choice all along. well, after i saw that Larry Brown wasnt coming to Houston. but i think Dunleavy wouldve done a better job than Van Gundy or Brown. Since Dunleavy isnt available however... I say bring in Mario Elie or even Kenny Smith. anyone but Clyde Drexler. get rid of baldy. NOWWWW.. PLEEEAAASSEEE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!
LOL. (wipes tears from eyes) it's beautiful. eloquent.. it's so .... poetic. succinct.... expresses all of my feelings exactly. and wtf is up with Chinese ppl not liking Van Gundy?? i thought everyone hated Van Gundy Red, Black, white, Yellow, Purple...
bulk, One thing I do not like you about is putting a label on my being against Chinese in general. You are trying to stir something other than basketball discussion. Yes indeed I went to the Chinese version of yaoming.net for reading. I read Chinese, I write Chinese, I talk Chinse, and mostly I think in Chinese, because I am a Chinese (and I am very proud of it). In fact, my Chinese is a lot better than my English. With regard to the yaoming.net, I did read quite some quality posts, and benefited from them. There was a coach Mr. Xu who often wrote some rudimentary B-Ball knowlege articles, which is great for educating the fans. And even Yao Ming occasionally posted something there (but alas, it has been long long time since last time he did so). In general, recently there are fewer quality posts, and more craps. I would rather not translate those rumors, daydreamings, ill-minded deduction of certain players against the others, and so on. I deem these as immature acts because they are. This has nothing to do with them being Chinese, this has something to do with them not grown up, and not having enough basketball knowlege. I am stating the fact that, for most fans in China, they started following Rockets after Yao made his way into NBA. It is only recently that CCTV broadcast extensively about NBA. It is a great thing to have, because it will help Chinese fans to learn NBA and basketball skill level nation wide would also develop. I wish someday I could see Team China to beat Team USA in the Olympic game. Hever it takes time before the Chinese fans to educate themselves about the NBA games, and those immature posts, to some extence, reflected their general poor NBA knowleges. Now back to the discussion of JVG. You admitted that he has been very helpful in Yao's development into one of the super centers in the NBA, did you? Now don't take it granted that any coach could have done that. Some other coaches might have molded him into completely different players. Speaking of a bad coach that I can think of, how about have that Larry Smith? Where would Yao be today, had Rockets had a head coach like that?
RocketsFan95, you said "When we assemble more right pieces/telent around our two big guns, and develoop more chemistry as a team, then we will be a much better team, and depend much less on franchise players being healthy the same time." Rosy picture, indeed. JVG has been given plenty of time to do just that, but to many fans, he is getting nowhere near that goal. Anyway, I don't hate JVG and I think he has done many great things for the Rockets, for Yao. But his talent has been stretched too thin, and his time has passed. The Rockets should move on and don't be afraid of changes.
Let's step back, look at what has happened since JVG joined us. Year 2003 (Rudy T.) -- 9th in the conference with a record of 43-39, just one game behind 8th seed the Suns. Everyone bascally agreed that had Rudy been healthy for the last couple weeks, the Rockets would be in the playoff. Year 2004 (JVG) -- 8th in the conference with a record of 45-37. Lost 1-4 to the Lakers in the first round. Year 2005 (JVG) -- 8th in the conference with a record of 51 - 31. Lost 3-4 to the Mavs in the first round. The Rockets team were basically the same between 2003 and 2004, same group of players, almost identical results. The only noticable thing is that Yao was a rookie in 2003, the team had one more year experience playing together by 2004 season. You could make an argument that 2004 team is underachived since Yao was better, and the team had played together for a year; but you could also make an argument that 2004 team made the playoff, 2003 didn't. So let's say year 2004 is a draw for JVG's evaluation. Then in 2005, the Rockets completely revamped their team with TMac trade. Obviously, no team would have refused that trade, and the Rockets were just locky to have the pie fall from the sky. With two years under the belt, Yao was a better player, and TMac was healthy, those alone would make us a playoff contender. So we made the playoff, gave the Mavs a scare, and out of the first round as previous year. Can you say JVG did a great job? You can certainly make an argument based on the 51-31 record and the good playing against the Mavs in the playoff. But you can also make an argument that we were a much better team with TMac, and a 3rd year Yao, we should play better than losing the first round. Yes, we did win 51 games, but that's just 6 more wins than the previous year. You would think TMac should worth at least that many wins than SF. IMO, it's hard to make an argument either way for JVG that year, I'd call it a draw. Now we are in 2005-06 season, what can we say about JVG? Absolutely nothing! With that many injuries, and the records we have, particularly the home records and the records vs division team, you cannot say one way or the other. So what's the grade of JVG coaching after two and a half years with the Rockets? Basically nothing! Not enough to make an evaluation one way or the other. One can get into specifics to claim JVG is a good coach or bad coach, e.g., his hard nose defense, or horrible offense, or Yao's development, etc, but ultimately, what counts is the result in this league, and JVG hasn't got enough time/opportunity to provide a result yet. Next year will tell the real story about JVG as a coach, of course, if we have a healthy TMac & Yao for the season.
And again, plenty of coaches who did far better still got the axe. He is no exception. JVG has flaws some of you people wont fess up to, put its okay when he slams the team every game. All your post did was show us that he hasnt wont jack squat and is borderline overrated in this city.
So your point is we should fire JVG because he "has flaws", and "plenty of coaches who did far better still got the axe"? Where did you get that logic? Every coach has strengths and weaknesss, but it doesn't matter as long as he can deliever the result. My point is JVG hasn't have enough time to prove himself yet, let's give him next year to show us.
RF95, there are several things I find problematic with your posts in this thread. First of all, you are generalizing Chinese (fans). They are a lot more diversed than what your own prejudicial mindset likes to frame them, in terms of their knowledge of the Rockets, the NBA, and basketball in general. Last time I checked, this is not a Chinese Rockets fan site. Yet from what I observe your problem with the anti-JVG sentiment on this board seems to stem exclusively from your interactions with other Chinese fans on yaoming.net. You know what, the very first poster responding to your thread is our resident JVG antagonist edc, who, I bet, is about as closely related to Chinese as I am to Mr. Van Gundy. I can list many more regular JVG bashers who are not Chinese. You got to understand the fire-JVG product you are witnessing on cf.net is not "Made in China." You actually made some pretty reasonable points why JVG should be retained as the Rockets' head coach for the next season and beyond but please spare us from your obssession with (or vendetta against) the Chinese Rockets fans, and, if you insist, take it elsewhere.
Ok, so I understand you read some JVG bashing from yaoming.net from posters who appear to be Chinese. Now you can have the following options (1) stop going to yaoming.net (2) still read yaoming.net but ignore the JVG bashing threads (3) reason with JVG bashers with your own point of view In stead, you come here at clutchfans and speculate? and expect us to appeciate that? Thank you.
Ok let me recap: (1) You think Chinese fans are against JVG, you get that impression from yaoming.net. if you don't call that a generalization, I don't know what generalization is. (2) You think Chinese fans are against JVG because (a) they have a short history of following NBA games (b) Chinese fans enjoy firing coaches when things are not right (c) Those Chinese fans are mostly college students or fresh out of school. (3) And I learn later, you are also Chinese, who speaks decent English. Now I don't know how long you have followed NBA, or where you are now at this point of your life, or how many NBA forums you have visited, but I can tell you this: (a) your claim most Chinese fans follows NBA only after Yao joins the NBA is nowhere to be backed-up, it only reflects your own perspective. (b) For or against JVG has nothing to do with how long you have followed NBA, you can find plenty of people who are against JVG and a long-time NBA/Rockets fan on this forum and elsewhere. (c) Like or dislike a coach, say JVG, has nothing to do with nationality or race. You can find all kinds of people who are JVG supporters and who are JVG bashers and who are ambivalent. (d) Taking it to the coach when the things not going well is not unique to the Rockets fans, nor Chinese fans. If you've ever visited espn boards, or Warriors boards, or some other teams boards. Moreover, coaches are indeed often the ones who take the axe when things don't go well in the NBA, justified or not. See paul Silas with Cavs. Could it be that your false claims reflect who you are, how do you think and your own perspective or lack there of? Now my suggestions to you: (1) Get a mirror. Mirror is a good thing to have, and use it ofen. (2) Get more perspective. (3) Call an idiot idiot, a goat goat, an immature post immature without referring to nationalities, or other generalization. (4) Make your own reasonable argument, let it be supporting JVG or aliens from Mars, without speculative generalization. Thank you and this advice is free of charge.
Thank you michecon but I do not need your advice on what my option is in the future. Whether or not I continue read/post articles on yaoming.net is my personal business. And like I stated before, I just get irritated when un-reseasonable bashes on JVG going on, it does not matter who they are. Now for whatever reason you get angry on my comments, I could care less. I do not need your appreciation to make myself happier.
Nope, if you know he's not the coach for this team, why waste time "seeing" what he's about? I mean, this isnt an experiment. This is a franchise in need of some real direction. To this day the man doesnt know what rotations to put in. That tells me he has no guage of what stick with. Unstable. They were his selections.
The year that JVG came to Houston, he was the best coach available after Larry Brown signed with the Pistons. There is simply no question about that. JVG came here and was able to improve the Rockets enough to make the playoffs for the first time in several years. Then, TMac fell in our laps and we saw a chance to build around him. The team (CD/JVG/Les) did a masterful job surrounding Yao and TMac with guys who could help us get to and do well in the playoffs. Seriously, last year we saw Tyronn Lue and Reece Gaines turn into David Wesley and Jon Barry, who both gave us a spark as we went down the stretch. JVG was able to integrate these guys extremely well, was able to modify his game plan to take advantage of TMac's strengths, and was able to get us within an injury to JHo of getting us to the second round of the playoffs. This year, the moves that were made were done with some expectations that were vary reasonable before the season. We expected Sura and Barry to contribute, we expected Stro to be at least a decent backup, and we expected Anderson to plug a hole at backup SG. There is no way we could have expected Sura, Anderson, and Barry's injuries, and then with TMac and Yao missing considerable time, being 4.5 games out of the playoffs is a pretty good outcome. With all of the injuries this year, the only way we could fire JVG is if another coach was available who was head and shoulders better (not taller, better ) than him. That is a pretty short list that includes PJax, Larry Brown, and Gregg Poppovich, but nobody else that I can think of. Until one of those guys is available OR until JVG flops in a season without the kind of injury issues we have had, firing him would be irresponsible.
That's brilliant logic. People have been fired from just about every imaginable job for no reason at all...does that mean that someone should fire you? Look at how many coaches have been fired...maybe even due to fan pressure...and then went on to be quite successful elsewhere.
