Vancover and Houston Relations

I have been out of town the last three days and wanted to post this,but couldn't decide on which thread to tag it on, I so made this one.

Houston and Vancover have been "heavy" into talks this past ten days.Francis and Othella being mentioned as all of you surmised. Also,Pippen,Bull,Maloney and Carr.(Carr??)

Anyway,wanted to let ya'll know that although Vancover and Houston have had some very interesting talks lately,and great relations in the past,Stu Jackson,GM and VP of Basketball Operations was REAL TIGHT with Barr,our lamented and upset VP of Player Relations. They in fact put many hours in together,and became business confidants, if not close friends.This is the missing link in the Houston talks with Vancover.
In short,the Vancover front office thinks, that had Barr stayed, a deal would have been made a long time ago,between the two clubs.

More Word from Grizz office( and some of this stuff is obvious,but it helps to get somethings first hand):

Francis will never be a bear.All the posturing is window dressing only.Interesting enough he is not opposed to Canada,just the doesn't want tp play for the Grizz. Toronto and Jackson have talked.So has Detroit and Milwaukee.Toronto has the edge,according to who I talked to.

If GM Jackson doesn't move Francis and get some "veteran" team compensation he will be out of there .... and quickly. Shame, as he is a good guy, and a mover. Would be a great replacement for Barr. But Barr has probably soured him on the Rockets already.

Vancover Grizzlies are about eight to twelve months away from officially being sold to a group of investors here in the USA and in Canada. One of the hinging factors in the sale is the ability of movement in the standings this year,or bringing in a high profile player and improved attendance as a result of these steps.With 8-42 last year, no where to go but up.High profile?

They attempted to shop a number of combos(more than two teams involved) with Eastern Teams this summer,with one package that had included A-Rahim.That was surprising to me. Boston,Bucks,Detroit,Miami and Washington were all approached for various combos.Bibby was the only guy they have never mentioned in these combos.Surprised me again.Thought A-Rahim was more valuable.

Folks,Vancover is ripe for some player movement.Stu Jackson will do anything to improve his team this year.They like Othella, Bullard and Carr(I know ... Carr????)... they would really like Pippen,but he would have to be happy.He actually would fit nice into there system, and be the marquee profile that they need to sell the franchise. But he's got to be happy.

BTW When the Rockets dropped the ball on the Toronto/Hakeem deal,Vancover was salivating.They wanted Hakeem so bad they would have sold anyone to get him.We missed a gigantic opportunity,there.Apparently Barr was so upset over the Toronto/Houston "about-face" that he stopped all Vancover talks then and there.And apparently no progress since.

My doable wish list: Massenburg and Francis,for Othella,Bullard,Maloney,Carr.And,I'll bet Ekezie can be had also.

 

Yep,and the Grizzlies say just prior to him leaving they were talking and smoozin' over several likely deals. Now there has been talks but nothing really substantial. Like the well dried up here in Houston. They attribute that to Barr and Jackson's relationship being key to the past negotiations.

What is this about a "shopping mall"? Ya lost me??

 

Jovi;

I call discreet being cautious and discerning. I know personally of many stories, rumors, and true accounts of sports figures or transactions that have never been made public,never put on sports tickers,and never posted on a newsgroup/BBS. All because of caution and discretion.

Recounting my meeting this weekend with an old friend is well concealed,and therefore,discreet ... although I would have prefered not to mention even that much about him.

You have said you do not believe the post as written.Okay.Fair enough.Thanks for reading it.See ya.

But what is specifically your objection????

Do you wish to be made aware of all sources of information on this BBS from all posters? Then do you want to chastise the poster because he/she attempts to explain the significance or relationship to that source without revealing names? Then do you wish to take the poster to task because he/she is not discreet enough with confidential matters?

Do you disagree with the object of the post,that is,that the Vancover Grizzlies are attempting to trade some players,and have included Houston in the trade talks? ... That Barr and Jackson had a close professional relationship,that is now possibly harming the Rockets chances of a fortuitous trade?

Or do you object to someone knowing something you do not?

I have a position in life that allows me to be in contact with several sports figures, and sports franchises,sometimes daily,most certainly on a weekly basis, and it gives me a unique view or knowledge of some sports transactions.Is it possible to share some of that on a fairly pedestrian fan-oriented bulletin board, without causing someone appoplexy and severe emotional harm?

I stand by the original post.Those who agree with it,do not make it more valid. Those who disagree with it,do not make it less valid.

 

World Be Free

Thanks WBF,but really I do not mind the criticism as long as we are discussing the story itself.I don't have a problem when someone says,"I can't believe it" or "man that is a strange trade" or "I am having a real problem with Vancover wanting another ..... whatever....", we can discuss it or go on. No problem.

But when someone says "I don't trust you" or implies I am a liar.Then you better have something to say to back up YOUR end. I will take that to task. I will come to visit, and let you know where I stand and why.

As noted I thought it was a fairly benign story anyway.No great shakes in the grand scheme of Rocket stories lately.Maybe we are so bored,that even this light FYI piece carried more weight than it really should. Go figure!

Aruba

Actually I don't know if I really love this trade with them or merely like it. If it comes off!

I still would like to see Mobley and Dickerson in a second season. No distractions. No playtime problems,and controversies, etc... But dang,Mobley and Francis with Dickerson and Anderson.Plus we get rid of some dead weight.Sounds just too good for the Rockets to get this through the beleagured front office without someone dropping the ball.

Also may explain the hangups with Anderson,Mack etc... could be the Rockets can't pull the trigger again.And I still think they would have to unload at least one of the kids,MD,Cat,or Drew if they can't trade Maloney and Price.We can't carry six(with Francis)guards.



[This message has been edited by popeye (edited August 23, 1999).]

 

Jovi:

What the H**l are you going off about? The deal that you are referring to was one I posted several weeks ago,and I prefaced it with the disclaimer that it was NOT a source and NOT anything I could or would back up. It was a multi-team deal that was told to me as thrid hand and I presented it that way. I felt I had to post it,and made the decesion to do that. Go back and read it.No relationship at all to what I just wrote.

I might also add that I was posting a "reliable source" was telling me that Hakeem was on the trading block,an d some of ya'll jumped my butt on that.MMmmmmmmm okay I just shut up.Two weeks later all hell breaks lose.Hakeem going to Toronto!!!! Well,surprise,surprise!!

I don't know if you have any sources or confidants,or media or other relevent insiders who can give you Rocket info over there in Europe,Jovi. But,in the US,if you have worked alongside some sports people,are discreate, and don't take advantage of people, you can pick up reliable information from time to time.

I have sources in a couple of cities.I am a medical investigator and have a wide variety of contacts throughout the country including some sports franchises.This past week I was in Vancover on business, and had a brief social luncheon with someone I trust.He is a Vancover Grizz Medical vendor,and very "inside" the organization.I posted his feelings,his facts and his speculation.And represented that info appropriately.I trust him implicitly.You can believe him or not,it makes no difference to me.

The only part that was mine was my wish list.

In point of fact,I thought the entire thing he told me made perfect sense,given the most recent history of the Houston Rockets.The only new things I learned was ... 1. the Stu Jackson and Barr relationship. 2. Vancover shopping A-Rahim,I thought he was untouchable and, 3. mentioning Carr as a commodity in a Houston trade deal. Everything else was not a startling revelation at all.

[This message has been edited by popeye (edited August 23, 1999).]

 

Clutch

I didn't think those seperate posts were contradictory. The "heavy" talks referred to lots of meetings and a large volume/quantity of contact between the two clubs.These apparently lacked the headway/quality in comparison to those talks that Barr was involved in prior.I accepted your post as such and did not feel you called me a liar or anything else contentious.Also,as I am about to tell Jovi,I overreacted a tad bit,I think.

Jovi

I think maybe I overreacted and fired back at you like a spoiled brat.I apologize.All posts here are open for criticism and scrutiny.I thought my sincerity was enough, and no further comment was necessary. Sometimes I take myself too seriousily.

Note:

As I posted earlier,I really didn't think the conversation I had with my friend was that great a story.As I said,frankly I thought it was a fairly benign revelation. The only real news being the relationsip of Barr and Jackson,the fact that A-Rahim was being shopped at one time,and the point that Carr and Othella being trade fodder.Carr??

I still say there would have to be some other moves going on if this deal goes down.Has got to be.

Dotter: albeit that it looks that six young guards are being employed,Rudy would have to have something up his sleeve to unload some of them if this trade goes down.He has also used a number of rookies before and we lived with it. Seven power forwards? He would have one signed(Thomas),one waiting to sign(Barkley),one possibly in the deal(Massenburg).Where are the rest? Bullard is gone,Othella is gone,Carr is supposed to be included,no one else is signed except Stanley and he'll live on the sick list all season.