If Yao Can Increase Minutes...

I agree with thacabbage. Tmac's screen and roll with Yao was deadly! What we saw in the playoffs from Tmac and Yao on that play is just the beginning. Tmac as a creator is very underrated. He did a lot for the Rockets last year in that role. Imagine if we can add another quality 3rd scorer to this team!

 

Welcome back.

I hope it's as simple as u suggest. U should be on Yao/Rockets payroll if u can solve Yao's trouble with the fronting. Some posters say that inside out game with Yao was a failure because the poor result of early last season. I am not sure if we watched the same games but the games I watched Rockets was NEVER able to get the ball inside consistently. There was never "inside out game". It was "trying to post him up for 8 seconds but failed so we run option B with 10 seconds on the shot clock". To have Yao as the first option was a joke. How can u be a first option if 80% of the time he cant get the ball at the position where he can do his things. Problem of course was fronting defense. It's still a problem as of today. I doubt the problem can be resovled with yao's lack of athleticism. As good as shaq, he couldnt do much in the playoffs without his super athleticism (due to injuries).

I think Yao can never be a 1st option if he cant solve his problem with the fronting. Increasing his mins would only improve his stats.

 

You know you're among family when you get smacked in the head and kicked in the ass after a year away. JAG, welcome back. (by the way, I got out of the big firm lawyer game, didn't go the teacher route and landed in a perfect gig. but thanks for your 2 cents on teaching). Now, back to the topic.

My Position: I don't believe that Yao has the mental makeup to be the No. 1. So, Tmac must be. Yao will be a terrific No. 2.

I hate saying this but oh well. It is hugely cultural and the only way that changes is if he becomes Western. He has to live here, watch MTV, trashy afternoon talk shows, watch sportscenter, go to bars, strip clubs, whatever. To develop the killer instinct for the NBA, the necessary ego and selfishness to be the best, he would have to move here and live here. That's not going to happen. I know tons of people that immigrated from the Far East to the States. Some, particularly those that come over at a young and impressionable age, become totally Western, with the beliefs, attitudes, etc. Less deferential to parents, more independent, less obedient, more into "bad stuff," hang out with white people (well, I should say non-asian people). And there's a spectrum that runs all the way to those that come to the States but change little, except to enjoy the Western technology and conveniences. These folks stay within immigrant communities that speak their native tongue and do little to adopt western thought/culture. Frequently, these are people that immigrate later in life, like Yao. My observation is that these people are not aggressive, are risk averse, remain respectful/team oriented people. . . remain very traditionally Eastern.

Yao is not entrenched at either polar end of the spectrum but is clearly much closer to the latter. In my view, that substantially diminishes the likelihood of him developing a killer instinct.

The good news is that we get to watch a different brand of basketball. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem were their team's number 1's. The only other championship teams in recent history were Jordan's bulls and the Pistons. (I toss out the Lakers and Celtics because those dynasties may never be duplicated again.)

An outside/inside tandem would be unique indeed and wonderful entertainment value. We have seen a Hakeem led championship team. If the odds of success are the same either way, I'd rather see a T-Mac led championship team.

 

I actually wouldn't group Duncan in there. For as clear a #1 as he is, they really don't feel like they are just throwing it in there play after play. It feels enormously balanced watching them, which is how it should be for the Rockets. And though Ginobili is by no means T-Mac, it is a similiar relationship.

 

I think this notion that Yao doesn't have the mindset to be a dominant champion isn't as cut and dry people make it out to be. Yao is a competitive player, but he's not competitive in the "I want to beat you down and whoop you up and down the street" sense that we normally associate with aggressive winners. Most definitely Jordan, Isiah, Shaq, Bird and a host of others had this kind of mentality.

Yao is competitive in the "I really want to win, because it sucks so bad to lose" sense. Yao's not an emotionless robot. He's got a little bit of fire in his belly, and he really wants to win.

It's a slightly different mindset, to want win in order to beat someone down, vs to want to win to avoid losing. Obviously the first one has more edge and aggression. And maybe a great champion does have to have a swagger. But maybe not.

JVG has spoken on the topic before, and it's his opinion, that while Yao might not have the aggressive fire to be a great winner, he might have the right poise and collectiveness instead.

Maybe a champion can win via immovable toughness rather than irresistable aggressiveness. It's an interesting idea. Of course even in that sense, Yao is a major work-in-progress. I was a bit disappointed in some of his play down the stretch against the Mavs this past playoffs. It's weird. Sometimes he's been absolute stone cold money down the stretch (he's hit a lot of big shots in crunch time the past two years), and sometimes he gets the jitters. Okay, now I'm just babbling.

My point I'm raising is that perhaps you need a killer instinct and maybe you don't. Maybe it's good enough to be able to take all of their best shots, instead of delivering the knockout blow yourself.

 

The whole East vs. West mentality is an overused 'piece of trash' analysis. How can you make a generalization about 1.3 billion people? It's like saying "Asians are short"... *cough cough* Yao + hundreds of millions of other asians are tall. I'm sure there are many strong-willed, dominating individuals in the East just like the West. Yao, currently, does not act in that way, but it has very little to do with Eastern mentality.

 

Martian Man,

I deliberately did not couch my thought as gospel. Frankly, there are no broad rules/generalizations that apply to everyone. My opinion is based on the many Asian people that have been a part of my life experience. I'd guess my thoughts are based on my personal knowledge and interaction with a good number (maybe 100 - 150) of Asian-American immigrants. I don't suggest that that's a scientific study. But that's my life experience and the basis of my current opinion on Yao's mentality.

Note that I didn't say Yao is weak minded, a loser, wimpy, sucks, is worthless, etc. The question posed in this thread is whether Yao or Tmac would be the No. 1 option. I said Tmac.

Easy with that "overused piece of trash analysis" analysis, unless you are willing to share your basis for saying it's trash.

For what it's worth, I am a 6'3" Asian guy, very aggressive, Type A, litigator.

I am MartianMan Exhibit "A" for the case that stereotypes do not always fit. But I never said the stereotype fits all, did I? Rather, there's a spectrum and people fall all over the range.

 

It's an interesting question, to be sure, and it's ultimately the reason that I have never liked basketball video games: the REAL game is not in the muscle-twitch, well-conditioned-athlete, memorized spots on the floor, semi-automatic jump shots, or high-flying dunks.. it's not even playing stingy defense or blocking shots.

The REAL game is the chess match. Yours against theirs. They have a coach and professional players, and they are trying to beat you and yours.

Putting aside for the moment that this question is addressing solely the offensive end of the floor, and ignoring the defensive end (which one could arguably say is the more important end, especially for the Rockets), the question is just never going to be a simple one, nor is it going to have a simple answer.

If, like the Globetrotters, the team faced the same opponent every game, then deciding on one main strategy, one style, would be a good idea. Unfortunately, there are numerous other teams out there, each one with different strengths and weaknesses. A successful strategy empoyed against one team and coach may fail miserably against the next.

Therefore, flexibility is a key. Obviously, having some of the best players in the league helps, and makes finding strategies flexible enough to succeed against the majority of the league much easier. This is why San Antonio wins championships, and the Clippers do not. SA's combination of better overall talent, combined with above-average coaching is very tough to beat.

Now one could make a serious case that TMac might very well be the best single player in the entire league. This means the opposing coach must go out of his way to try to devise a way to stop him. And whatever people think of Yao's conditioning, or strength, or positioning, or base, he has also proven that the majority of time, he cannot be guarded by any single player. This means that the opposing coach must ALSO think of a way to stop Yao.

This is going to mean doube teams, and sometimes even triple teams, especially against TMac.

Now let's say we were to settle on a particular style, a particular offensive 'philosophy'. Well, you've just made the opposing coach's job easier. You have to look at each opponent, and decide which strategy is most likely to work against that particular team. That's why flexibility is so important.

We got so spoiled during the Hakeem years, for two reasons: 1) Hakeem was simply so much better once he had figured out how to really beat other teams with both his offensive skill AND his passing, and 2) defensive rules were almost tailor-made for the Rockets to dominate with Hakeem in the middle.

Neither of those things apply to our current team. And yet, the combination of TMac + Yao might in fact be better than any combination of two players the old Rockets had, even Hakeem + Clyde. So what we have lost in supreme domination by an all-time great big man, we have probably made up in flexibility with TMac and Yao. This is good, because of the ridiculous rules changes allowing zone defenses.

So. Settle on an 'identity' that TMac, being so good, will have the offense run 'through' him? Ok, you have virtually guaranteed that he will be double-teamed almost at half-court every time. That makes his job harder, and the other team's easier.

Settle on going through Yao every time? Ok, he's going to be fronted every time, pushed in the back at the same time, and hacked to death by little squirt guards. Again, you're just making it easier on the other team.

The coach and the players have to be flexible enough, skilled enough, and smart enough to be able to recognize what the defense is doing, and react accordingly. This is where that oh-so-valued 'chemistry' comes into play. You take two players whom the opposing coach MUST account for at all times, and surround them with quality role-players who can hit open shots, and you have the recipe for success. We may not have necessarily wanted Luther Head all that much on draft night, but I suspect that we will all pretty soon become very grateful for the selection. Second verse, same as the first - pick your poison. Either way, you are dead. Whatever they do to stop whatever you're doing, their effort should open a different hole to exploit.

So it's all fine and good to talk about offensive identities and all, especially during the dog-days of the offseason, but in reality, we're in pretty good shape offensively. TMac has proven to be everything we dreamed he would be, Yao has good skills and a high BB IQ, the role-players are going to be a good mix of savvy veterans and some youth.

Where we should be more concerned is in the area of defense and rebounding. It seems that JVG likely agrees, since his specific comment was, regarding Swift: 'Get him here.' Stro is not coming here for his offensive prowess. Everybody knows why we need a guy like him: because we have to go through guys like Duncan, Garnett, Amare, Dirk, Brand, etc etc, to get where we want to go, and Stro helps to even up that unbalanced playing field, at least defensively.

 

Great post and well put. Flexibility is one of the keys to successful basketball.

I think that Yao is already a dominant inside player. He doesn't get as many points as Shaq does or Hakeem did, but as had been mentioned, a lot of that is due to the legal zones now being employed. Shaq's scoring average has dropped primarily because of these rules and we will not see Yao scoring 25+ unless those rules are modified, which I don't really see happening given that scoring is up and the game seems to be getting more fast paced and less tedious (which was the goal of the rules change in the first place) than it was in the ISO heyday.

The biggest reason I call Yao a dominant inside player right now is that he commands a double team every trip down the court. If he gets the ball in the low block against single coverage, his percentages are extremely high. This is the reason that he gets fronted as much as he does and is also the reason that JVG had him outside setting screens when teams chose to front to deny him the ball.

One of the reasons I would really like to see Swift in a Rox uni was stated by GATER in one of the Swift threads, and that is that Swift is quick enough to set multiple screens on the perimeter and still get into position for offensive boards, which Yao struggles with. I drew up a play that I think would be nearly unstoppable with a ball handling three point shooter at 1 (James, Head?), T-Mac at 2, three point shooter at 3, Swift at 4, and Yao at 5. You can see the drawing here.

PAGE 1
1 brings the ball up and sees Yao posted with his defender fronting on the strong side with 3 in the right corner, 4 at the right elbow, and T-Mac outside the arc on the right side. Since Yao is being fronted, 1 swings the ball to T-Mac and takes position outside the arc at foul line extended while Swift moves over to set a pick for T-Mac and Yao moves to the left elbow.

PAGE 2
T-Mac runs his defender off of Swift's screen and Yao sets a second pick at the left elbow. Once T-Mac clears Yao's screen, Yao rolls to the basket. At this point, 1 clears the area, going to the top of the arc or all the way over to the right side, wherever the clear spot is.

PAGE 3
Swift sets another pick for T-Mac at the left elbow while Yao clears to the right block. T-Mac uses Swift's screen and Swift rolls to the basket while 1 and 3 move to open areas.

The opportunities in a set like this are nearly endless. T-Mac can shoot at any point that he gets daylight. Yao rolls to the basket from the elbow, making a pass from T-Mac much easier than when they run the PnR from the 3-point line. Swift rolls to the basket from the elbow as well, and he can go up for an alle-oop from T-Mac. T-Mac can give the ball to Yao on the right block if the PnRs aren't there after Swift's second screen. And if anyone doubles at any point, kick to the open three point shooter.


Personally, I think that we need to get the ball into Yao's hands as close to every time down the floor as possible. Even if he is only the decoy, he causes the entire defense to adjust every time he touches the ball. T-Mac will probably be our leading scorer and the "main man" for quite some time, but Yao presents as big (or bigger) a mismatch at 5 as T-Mac presents at either 2 or 3. We need to exploit that mismatch as much and as often as possible.

 

Although yes Hakeem was doubled and tripled the rules of his day was they couldn't double until he had the ball.

In today's game, you can double before Yao can get the ball. It makes it much tougher to receive a pass without ball and/or player movement. Just as you cannot judge Hakeem with Wilt because they played in different era's and with different rules, its not fair to judge Yao against that eras centers.

Yao still has weaknesses he needs to overcome and he's fair game for those BUT the double/triple teams that he sees, Hakeem NEVER SAW.

 

from jsb:

Too true, except when we played Seattle in '92 & '93.