hehehehehehehee I think this argument is based on the fact that IMO we have far too much trust in the Gov. The 2nd Admendment was about protection from the Gov. While you say 'NO WAY YOU COULD STAND UP TO THE GOV WITH YA MONEY' well . . DUH Cause YOU CANNOT PURCHASE THE SAME WEAPONS THE GOV CAN . . BECAUSE OF GUN CONTROL ADVOs. [Not to mention you don't have the deep pockets] hehehehe Funny folx kinda got distracted by the slavery thing. . . . I could go to that tangent. . but I won't Rocket River ------------------
Hilarious, Achebe, you can be a real b*stard at times, but damn if you don't bring a smile to my face. Space Ghost, you proved your mental capacity by not being able to understand Ahebe's post. That and your ability to continually misuse and make up new words in your posts. ROXRAN, maybe you should move to Eastern Europe so that you can more readily use your "skills" and arsenal for defense against invasion. Unless there are major changes, you will never see an invasion in this country. I would love to have seen you take on the Japanese air force with your 9mm! ------------------ Take an object. Do something to it. Do something else to it. " " " " " [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited March 01, 2001).]
I won't use the 9mm... I'll use something else that 'll blow em all up to smithereens!!! RAh!!! BLabalhblah boom bish bang pow zap!..Uh, uh I don't know what I'll use but it will be big, real big man!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahhahahhahhhhhhhhhh!!! ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
No home defense system could be complete with out 4 thermal optic 50cals on hydraulic turrets in each corner of your back yard set at 1ft height increments to insure total coverage of any perimeter intrusion. And for the road warrior on a budget, I suggest a hood mounted TOW...more bang for your buck. Plus, it puts the kids motor skills to good use. ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.
I thought we should bump this back to the top, because of the horrid shooting that took place today. A gun is WAY to easy to get in this country. WAKE UP PEOPLE !!! DaDakota ------------------ Go Jazz * http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/011403.html
Here are some gun stats: 55% of gun deaths are suicides. The rate of suicides per 100,000 people in the U.S. is 11.8 (in 1996, the most year stats are available), compared to a rate of 13.4 in Canada, 17.9 in Japan, 20.9 in France and 25 in Finland. About 700 kids under 17 are killed each year with guns. That compares to about 700 kids each year who are killed with knives, blunt objects or bare hands, while about 2,000 kids under 15 died in car crashes and almost 1,000 drowned. There is evidence to suggest that cultural differences play a large role in the differences in gun deaths between countries. A country like Switzerland (which has very liberal gun laws) has a murder rate of about 1.2 murders per 100,000 people, which is essentially the same as Great Britain, a country with very restrictive gun laws. Even a place like Israel, which is lousy with guns, has a murder rate on par with most of Western Europe. Even if we take out all gun deaths (and assume that no one who killed someone with a gun would do so by other means if a gun were unavailable, which is a dubious assumption), the United States would have a homicide rate of about 3.1 homicides per 100,000 people. Canada's homicide rate was 2.1 per 100,000, Sweeden's was 1.4 per 100,000 and Japan's was 0.5 per 100,000. About 3/4 of all violent crime in the U.S. is committed without firearms. It is estimated that at least 84,000 crimes are stopped each year by civilians brandishing a firearm. (Some pro-gun advocates estimate that number is much, much higher, as high as 3.4 million as a matter of fact, but I'm sticking with the lowest estimate to be conservative.) So, the question is: would a ban on guns really make any significant difference? ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
mrpaige, a couple of questions? 55% of gun deaths are suicides. Are you serious?!? How many gun deaths do we have yearly? the United States would have a homicide rate of about 3.1 homicides per 100,000 people. What is our actual rate of homicide including gun gun deaths? About 3/4 of all violent crime in the U.S. is committed without firearms. I'd be interested in more details on this stat (I know you probably don't have them) -- it leaves alot of potential to be misleading. Do they consider only USING a firearm or just having one? Does this include domestic violence, which is mostly non-gun related? ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
In 1997, there were 21,259 handgun deaths and 11,177 deaths from other firearms in the United States. That includes suicides. The 3.1 per 100,000 figure is from 1990. In that year, there were 9.3 total homicides per 100,000 people. That number dropped in subsequent years, though. The Total Number of homicides went down to about 9.0 per 100,000 by 1994. An interesting footnote, the homicide rate was 9.8 per 100,000 in 1974, and despite the more than doubling of the number of guns on the street between 1974 and 1994, the number of homicides dropped to 9.0 per 100,000. (Both years had about the same percentage of gun homicides in relation to total homcides). One would think that if availability was what caused the crime, the homicide rate would increase with the increase in the availability of guns. THe opposite actually happened. The last stat counts all violent crime as violent crime (that would include domestic violence, I assume, but the article I read didn't say) and included crimes as being "without firearms" when there was no firearm present (the gun didn't have to be used or fired to be counted, in other words). ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
After looking around on the Internet some more, I saw some stats that call into question the information regarding Switzerland and their gun laws, etc. So, I don't know what to think about that anymore. I stand by all the rest of the stuff, though, as it appears to be correct. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
mrpaige, What is it if you do not take out the gun deaths? This seems to be the most salient point a gun advocate could ever make. A few questions: 1) What is the source? How was the data collected? 2) Why the variance? 84,000 to 3.4 million? Serious sampling error? Different methods? 3) 3.4 mill? How many people own guns in the US? Are they all vigilantes? ------------------ I'd rather be boinking my wife.
The thing I could find on that was a stat that says for every child killed (and by "child" they mean people 19 and under, which is sort of misleading and skews the statistics higher because those 18 and 19 year-olds are about 75% of the stat) there are four injured by guns. Who knows if that holds up for all gun injuries vs. gun deaths. We can't even find anyone to agree what whether the stat is 84,000 or 3.4 million. I suspect it's somewhere in the middle. But according to the FBI, in 1997, there were 13,175,070 crimes reported in the United States. But only 1,634,773 were violent crimes, and only about half of those violent crimes had a gun involved). If the Florida State Law School study stating 2.4 million successful defenses using a gun, we can say that gun crime is significantly less likely than successful defenses of crime using a gun. Couldn't tell you. None of the places I looked had any stats on crimes committed with weapons other than firearms. Other than murder, though, firearms are used in less than 50% of violent crimes. Handgun Control, Inc. estimates that over 9,000 lives were saved between 1994 and 1998 by taking guns out of the hands of criminals (Their research also shows that the percentage of crimes committed with guns is falling far faster than the crime rate, which would lead one to believe that the Brady Law is actually helping to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. The percentage of criminals using guns in crimes had been growing and reached a peak in 1993, right before the Brady Law took effect). ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
Another thing to think about, when these debates come out about banning guns, the guns that get the most attention are assault rifles, generally. Yet handguns are actually the bigger problem. Sure an assault rifle can be used in a spree killing very effectively, but spree killings are still an extremely small percentage of the total number of gun crimes and gun deaths. If you ask me, if we're going to bank certain types of guns, we should look at banning handguns before we look to ban assault rifles or long guns. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
I realize I'm coming into this mega-late...but has anyone else mentioned that gun-related crime and violent crime has dramatically increased in Great Britain and Australia since they banned the private ownership of guns? Just curious. ------------------
As I understand it, they banned private ownership of guns in GB in 1920. It would be hard to tell whether the increase in violent crime and gun deaths from 1920 to today was a result of the banning of guns or for some other reason. As for Australia, here are some stats I saw regarding the increases in crime in the 12 months following the gun ban (I don't vouch for their accuracy. I'm just throwing them out there): OBSERVABLE FACTS, AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2% Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6% Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT) In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300% Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery- with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months) On the other hand, anther group says that gun deaths have decreased dramatically since 1988 (when gun control laws first starting taking effect, apparently). Their numbers show that gun deaths went from 696 in 1988 to 327 in 1998. (Interestingly, unlike in the U.S., the percentage of gun deaths that are suicides are far higher, around 80% of the total. And that percentage has remained pretty constant. Which again leads one to believe that there may be more than just the availability of guns that causes Americans to be more violent). Of course, since we don't have data prior to 1988, we don't know if the number of gun deaths was already dropping or not. If we take both sets of stats together, we could say that gun deaths have decreased dramatically in Australia while crime has risen. One could interpret the data to mean that an Australian is less likely to be killed by a gun now, but more like to be killed, robbed, assaulted, etc. But that's assuming both sets of stats are true. I don't know that for a fact (both sets come from interested parties. The first set from the Australian NRA and the second set from an Australian gun control group). ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited March 06, 2001).]
Hey MadMax!! How have you been? Sorry, I didn't know about Great Britain and Australia. That's interesting though. Does anyone have a nifty chart w/ all of the variables (Smeg's employment, Roo on Roo violence, economy, etc.)? ------------------ I'd rather be boinking my wife.
I mentioned the stat with the gun deaths in a subsequent post. In 1994, the total homicide rate was 9.0 per 100,000 people in the U.S. As for the successful defenses stat, I don't know the specifics (I wish I did because I am curious as to what methodology was used, etc. and why there is such a vast difference in the numbers.) ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
A couple of other stats I would be interested in: (not saying anyone here should find them -- I just think they'd be interesting) * How many gun injuries are there per year? Deaths don't really give a complete picture of the situation. * How many total crimes are there in that 84,000 crimes prevented by guns statistic? * What is the injury/death rate from a crime involving a gun compared to a similar crime involving a knife or other weapon? ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets. [This message has been edited by shanna (edited March 06, 2001).]
