and no disrespect to you, Gater i learn lots from you. p.s theres a ton of errors in my post lol i didn't bother to read it over (or edit, obviously). Please excuse all of that
I have always advocated bringing Cat back, going back to the day we traded him, and that is not going to change now. Cat provides all of the positives we get from Wesley, plus better shooting and does not have the weaknesses. We need to offer expiring contracts plus draft picks to the Kings for Cat. Bring home the kitty.
DavidS - Name a player we should add because we need more scoring? Is that the criteria? OK, how about Antoine Walker. He scores more points per 48m than Mobley (who is only slightly above Mike James in the category). Walker has a slight edge but they are comparable in assist per 48 (4.4 - 4.2). Oh, but no sayeth you. Antoine Walker jacks up shots randomly with no concern for the team. Shots per 48....Walker - 22.4...Mobley - 18.7. Less than 3 FGA's per 48. Ahhh..c'mon Gater. Mobley's younger than that re-tread Walker. No, actually...Walker is almost 1 year younger. Well, I know that Mobley is a Shooting Guard, but clearly he can pass better than Antoine Walker. No again...it's not true. While neither is Mike James (6.8 a/48m), Walker dishes out more a/48 than Mobley....4.3 - 3.8. Well, Gater...what's your point. You're just "hatin' " on Cat. Wellllllllll....the 04-05 Rockets averaged 78.3 FGA's per game. The SAC Kings led the NBA in assists per game while averaging 85.1 FGA's and Mobley couldn't out assist Kenny Thomas. Antoine Walker puts up better numbers. Other than the fact Mobley played a season under VG, is there really a reason why he'd be more valuable than Antoine Walker?
i don't know, but he shoots a lot, at a fairly low percentage for a pf, and doesn't rebound or defend that well for a pf. and being a power forward, he's not much of a shooting guard. mobley shoots well and defends well for a sg. did i miss some thread where there was a huge antoine walker argument (re: bringing him here) or did you just pick a tall guy with more assists than mobley?
DavidS - great post. Gater- Now you are comparing a PF to a SG? How does 'Tione help us get more athletic and quicker in the backcourt? How does 'Tione help take pressure off of Mcgrady when nobody else is scoring? Actually that's 3.7 more FGA's for Walker, but who's counting? In all reality 3.7 shots is actually a lot more when you are looking at averages. Yao took about 19 shots per 48 last year. Mcgrady took about 21 per 48. Do you really want a PF that is used to getting more shots than both of our superstars? I like Walker's passion and heart on the court. I also like Steve Francis' passion and heart on the court. Passion and heart don't overcome stupid play, and both of these guys make questionable decisions on the court. If we want a PF with an outside shot Donyell Marshall does that and rebounds much cheaper than Antione Walker. Age - 1 year difference? Is that even worth debating? And once again, we do not need a great PASSER at SHOOTING GUARD. You keep comparing his number to Kenny Thomas...are you familiar with the Kings offense? I believe it is called the high post. They get the ball to one of their big men (Brad Miller, Kenny Thomas) at the top of the key while the wings cut to through the lane and try to get open. Obviously Kenny Thomas' assist numbers are going to be inflated a bit in that offense. Walker really is not the right guy for this team even if we could land him. It's a longshot to get Mobley too, but he fits. Period. I honestly think a starting SG is more crucial to next year's success than a PF. Wesley isn't bad but Mobley does everything he does better and more. Howard will be fine for another year or two at PF. We do need a backup, but that can come cheap or through the draft. Earlier in this thread you told us to "get over it" about Mobley. Maybe in the back of your mind you are holding something against him that won't let you perceive the notion of bringing him back? Btw, please don't take any of this personal. I don't think any of us mean any disrespect.
This thread seems to suggest that we'll get Antoine Walker and Cuttino Mobley. That's a solid offseason if you ask me. Maybe we'll get a pass first backup point to round out our roster.
Hey, GATER. I wasn't bashing you. I hope your post was tongue and cheek. Because I was just asking "who then" if not Cat? Antoine Walker? No problem. I have no issues with acquiring him. In fact, I love his game. The guy has the killer instinct. He has to spend most of his time lighting a fire under Paul Pierce's butt. Anyways, my point was not that *other* players may or may not be better than Cat. It's that some of the things you said about Cat weren't necessarily true -- or rather they were true back in the Francis days, but not so today with our new roster or even Sac's roster that Cat plays with now. By the way, it's not a mandate that the criteria be "a scorer." In a perfect world we should go get a do-it-ALL player like Kevin Garnett. Or a PG that can PASS AND SCORE like Nash. Or even a PG that can ASSIST like B. Night/Kidd. But those highly skilled players aren't available. What's left? Well, either good spot-up shooters that aren't great scorers (John Barry types). Or good scorers that aren't necessarily good passers (Mobley). A balanced G like Jeff McInnis. Or athletic freaks (Swift) that can't really shoot or pass, but can just cause havoc around the basket. Basically, many shades of grey - good specialists. Some well-rounded, some not so well-rouned. None of them "perfect." The reason I said *scorer* was needed was because those type of players seem to be a good fit for OUR team and they ARE available. Anways, as Diehard Rocket said....please don't take any of this personal. I don't think any of us mean any disrespect. In fact, I enjoy reading your CAPOLOGY posts.
Mobes was dishing out 4.2 assists per 48 minutes, or about the same as Walker and Kenny Thomas, for the Kings in the regular season. That is coming into a completely new offense with no training camp and very little practice time. Cat is going to give you 17 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, a steal, and half a block in an average game. He is going to shoot the three (44% last season) and make a good percentage of his free throws. He is going to play defense on the other team's best wing player. He will also eat up 40 minutes of SG time, meaning less reliance on inconsistant bench players. If JVG cannot use a player that would be this teams second best perimeter defender, best 3 point shooter, could create his own shot, and get you 4 rebounds and 3 assists per game, then I question his ability as a coach. We really don't need to speculate though, because Cat has already shown what he can do under JVG: 15.8 points, 4.5 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.34 steals, and 0.41 blocks per game.
You guys can quote all the stats you want about Walker. I've watched him play his whole career, especially those years in Boston, as I went to school there. Yeah, he's got passion, but it's like the passion a kid has for a toy. THe funny thing about Walker, is that he's been relying on his physical gifts for so long, (even when he was overweight) he's never taken that next step to become a smart basketball player. I don't care what the stats say, he does take circus shots far too often. He's not a good passer. His defense is increadibally inconsistant, and when he gets frustrated, he can self-destruct. Not known as a good lockerroom guy, and quite frankly, has never lived up to any contract he's had (in terms of playing like he's worth it). Why there is a Walker fan club on this board is beyond me. Definately not our guy at the 4, and to say that we need Walker more than we need Mobes is only to say that PF is our position of greatest need. It doesn't mean that Walker would be better for our team than the Cat. I've never doubted Cat's heart, but Walker is a whole nother story. I do, however, think that he has matured into more of a professional than he used to be, but I'm still not 100% sold given all of the years I watched him do stupig things.
Rockets2K...First of all,I'm not the only one who thinks this.YOU go back and read the thread.And even though that view might be in the minority,after watching him at Rhode Island,through ALL of his tenure w/the Rox,w/Orlando,and finally w/the Kings,yes,I haven't changed my mind.I can understand you defending one of your favorite players,but there is no need to be so defensive about this that you get personal towards me.I'm just not going to fall in line and gush over Cat,if I see him as a threat to the Rockets.I am a Houston Rockets fan,first and foremost here. By the way,there are many more who think like I do about this guy,but just won't post it. I know Doc just posted"not true"...Guess this helped fuel your fire enough to to take a shot at me. Oh well,I stand by my staements about Mobes.It would seem Pete Carrill did have some effect on his game,but it remains to be seen if it will stick.The comments already made in other posts about a huge ego,"me and Tracy",being a jack,etc. are all true.If he comes here I will root for him to kick butt,but if he starts pulling that same crap on THIS team,I'll have a big problem with him.Based on Doc's post,I might have to get cozy with the idea of him coming back.
It was 100% tongue-in-cheek to emphasize a point. And you appear to be the only one who figured it out. I picked Walker deliberately because he's younger, bigger and puts up better #'s but needs shots to be effective and takes the same ill-advised shots in transition. He's basically Cuttino's younger brother. The difference between the two? Cuttino used to play for Houston. I got a neat chuckle out the Cuttino legal defense team justifying Cat over Walker. I'm going to continue to ask the question because IMO no one has satisfactorily answered it. The Kings are the definition of "team"...their bigs generally have more assists than many other teams' PG's. Mobley is an under-sized 30 year old ISO SG. If the Kings have his Bird Rights and don't want him....we do we? If we are only talking SG's, take your pick...Darius Miles (not wanted in POR), Ricky Davis (not wanted in BOS), or FA's Bobby Simmons, DerMarr Johnson, Larry Hughes, Raja Bell, Bobby Jackson (older but much cheaper), Willie Green, Gerald Wallace. Keith Bogans...SG is one of the deepest positions in the NBA and it's a deep draft for SG's (Graham, Fernandez, Garcia, Winston). The big ticket for the summer is one of the Big 4 UFA PF's (Swift/Marshall/SAR/Walker). I'm not going to let Mobley be a distraction to them. Any 1 of those PF's and drafting 1 of the aforementioned SG's and the season couldn't begin soon enough for me.
Mobes Walker's younger brother? I think that's a bit over-the-top. Mobes has more heart in his pinkie finger than Walker has in his whole over-weight, under-achieving body. Walker= underachiever; THe Cat = overachiever. Cat = 2nd round pick, Walker = Lottery pick. Cat has proven himslef, Walker has proven that he will never be the player people thought he would be. By the way, I'd rather have my 2guard jacking up circus 3pters than my PF.
no, no, no, no, no. Please do not bring Jack back. I had enough of his incessant dribbling and dumb ass last-second shots in his previous go with the team. And the Rockets do not need a shooting guard.
It makes no sense to entertain the idea of getting Cuttino Mobley. We don't have the money, and we need a power forward and point guard first. We have Yao and Tracy, we have a bunch of 2s. We don't have a 1 or a 4. We don't need a guy like him enough to forgo the priority at 4 and 1. Cuttino would be better off in Denver, if he's going for the MLE, or via sign and trade. Not very many teams have money to pay him, and those that do have a lot of other good 2 guards to choose from. I don't see how he has much market leverage. Perhaps he's just angling for a raise from Sacremento - that seems like his best career move to me. Cuttino certainly has a loyal fan club. If you guys really want to play with the idea of having him here, you'll need to come up with some scenario where he gets here. I haven't seen that yet. Now, if we get a good power forward too, like we might with say, Marshall/Rose or DA/SAR, there might be something there. Or if we got a good point in the deal. I don't see it, though. I think you guys need to move on.
If all people want is a scorer that's a little bigger than Wesley... Why not Flip Murray? I'd say his scoring ability is not that far behind Cuttino's and he will come at a much cheaper price. 3 point shooter? Kareem Rush.
I am not advocating bringing Cat back. I am just pointing out that his statements at that point in the season were accurate. Van Gundy changed his offensive style and let TMac make whatever decision he wanted to. You could see a noticable difference in Van Gundy's approach to TMac throughout the rest of the season, even down to deferring to TMac on making the decision on whether or not to call time out of Dallas scored in the playoff game. He let TMac decide not to call the TO and go down and sink the game winner. That has not and was not a characteristic of Van Gundy coaching before he came to a meeting of the minds with his superstar. Van Gundy changed his approach towards TMac and TMac's shots, PPG, and our wins went through the roof when he did. TMac became a taller, smarter, more efficient, better shooting Francis for us. Mobley's criticism of how Van Gundy ran his team's offense was right at that moment of time. I'm sure glad Van Gundy made the adjustments and I'm glad TMac adjusted also and came out of his shell. Cat may not fit here now. I would be hesitant to bring him back and even if we wanted him I really question how much he would want to come back here. I don't see any way we could sign him unless he didn't opt out and we traded with Sac for him.
And the fact that he lets T-Mac create and Cat not will cause even more friction. JVG is not going to let Cat play like he wants, bottom line. With T-Mac here the shooting guard position is even more restrictve, that's what made Wesley so perfect for it.
