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Astros Rumblings and Grumblings (ESPN.com)

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by idrockfan, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. idrockfan

    idrockfan Contributing Member

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    - Teams that have spoken with the Phillies report there has been some "tire kicking" from other clubs on Placido Polanco, who reluctantly took the Phillies' arbitration offer after turning down multiyear deals with the Cardinals and Indians.

    Polanco got a one-year, $4.6-million contract out of it -- but that just figures to make him the best-paid utility player in baseball. So while Boston and Houston are among the clubs with interest in trading for him -- in combination with other moves -- Charlie Manuel is promising to get Polanco lots of at-bats at second base, third and even short. And the Phillies appear more inclined to use him as trade bait in July than in January.

    - The Astros continue to look into all sorts of outfield options in their post-Beltran era. Two Devil Rays they've expressed interest in: Jose Cruz Jr. and sprint champ Joey Gathright. But Tampa Bay would almost certainly want Jason Lane, and the Astros prefer to keep him.

    - Meanwhile, according to clubs that have spoken with the Astros, owner Drayton McLane has balked at including local hero Brandon Backe in just about any deal. And it's hard to envision Texas even being willing to discuss Alfonso Soriano unless Backe is part of the package.
     
  2. RocketFan007

    RocketFan007 Contributing Member

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    No way I trade Jason Lane for Cruz Jr. Gathright's numbers are really similar to Taveras, except he doesn't have quite as many steals.
     
  3. Uprising

    Uprising Contributing Member

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    Lane will be an Astro. I don't see him getting traded (for that).
     
  4. Luckyazn

    Luckyazn Contributing Member

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    Last year when we signed Clemens/Pettitts alot of people thought we were favor to win the National League and I even remember seeing some expert picking Astros/Red Sox in the World Series.




    Arnt we basically the same team? Yeah we lost Wade Miller but we gain Brandon Backe, yeah we lost Kent but Lane/Burke can't be much off. Beltran didn't come in till late July.

    Biggio Clemens
    Burke Oswalt
    Bagwell Pettittes
    Berkman Backe
    Lane Munro/Hernadez
    Ensberg
    Everett Wheeler/Lidge ect.
    Ausmus

    :)
     
  5. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    If Oswalt, Clemens, Pettite and Backe stay healthy all season, the Astros lineup is adequate enough to compete.

    Hitting only gets you so far, pitching is the key. All those great Cardinal hitters didn't do squat once they ran into the Sox pitching staff.
     
  6. BMoney

    BMoney Contributing Member

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    I don't want to sound like I am totally in the doom-and-gloom crowd, but there are too many question marks in the line-up *and* in the pitching staff for people to feel too confident about the Astros winning the division this year. The 2004 Cardinals have often been used as an example of teams being underestimated (to give Astros fans hope for 2005), but they at least had some undeniable strengths going into last year. Few baseball observers doubted that they already had one of the best line-ups and terrific defense.

    The Astros don't have a single area where there aren't some big question marks. Even the starters have some issues: can Pettite regain his form as a solid #2 starter, or will he eat up payroll and give you Jim Clancy numbers? Will Oswalt's health hold up again enough to be our workhorse? Is Backe a flash-in-the-pan that the National League will catch up to? Who is going to be the fifth starter? Can Clemens still keep being dominant at his age? With Lidge's history of injuries, can we bank on him being the man again? Are there enough pieces in the bullpen for a contender? The point I am making is that even in the supposed strength of the team- pitching- there are still way more question marks than the other division contenders have.

    The offensive production figures to struggle. too. Team speed will be a wash with Burke in the line-up replacing Beltran, but who is going to replace the 200 rbi that have left the line-up? If Lane were such an awesome prospect he would have been playing a lot sooner. He's 27, or 28 years old and has put up solid, but not spectacular numbers in the minors. His defense and base running don't figure to knock anybody out, either. I think Lane is more of a fourth outfielder type than somebody who you depend on for big numbers.

    I can't see Bagwell doing any better than last year with *less* protection around him in the line-up, either. For the Astros to contend I think that the pitching will need to be great, not merely good. Morgan Ensberg will need to emerge this year as an above average everyday third baseman (with Lamb giving some nice pop off the bench) and we will need some more pieces in the outfield. There are too many fairly easy outs in the line-up (Brad Ausmus and the annual month + of Bagwell sucking) as it is. Outfield defense is also going to suck, frankly, until some other moves are made. Craig Biggio does his best, but he simply doesn't cover enough ground out there.

    On the other hand, some kids, or Purpura, or the old-timers on the ballclub might just step up and shut all of us naysayers up. Baseball has a funny way of doing that. As a lifelong Astros fan who has been there in good times and bad I hope they surprise the hell out of me and kick some serious ass this year......here's to another great baseball season! Go 'stros!
     
  7. NJRocket

    NJRocket Contributing Member

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    Guys,

    Clemens even said it himself...everyone is going to have to step up it up a notch and there is going to be less room for error if we are to suceed this year. Whether its Lane, Burke, Ensberg or EVerett (oy vey!), guys will have to have career years.
     
  8. fya

    fya Member

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    Good point, if Houston had a healthy SP last year, no way in HELL would the deadbirds have beaten the Stros. Miller is damaged goods until he has surgery. Kent will be a bigger blow to the lineup than Beltran. Beltran was spectacular in the playoffs, but he isn't worth the $$$$$ at all. Aubrey huff, Byrnes would easli fill Beltran's shoes.
     
  9. RocketFan007

    RocketFan007 Contributing Member

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    He won't easily fill Beltran's shoes, but I think Byrnes would be a great addition.
     
  10. Milos

    Milos Member

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    While I was initially reluctant, now that Clemens is back I feel much better about dealing Backe and Burke for Soriano. Here is why:

    1. Clemens' return ensures (barring injury) a top three that will win at least 50 games. That means Backe, as the fourth starter, becomes more of a luxury, rather than a necessity. Great teams with bottomless pockets can afford such luxuries; the Stros are not and cannot. As a rule of thumb, you deal from a strength to improve a weakness, so I have no problem losing something from the rotation if it means a significant upgrade to our lineup. And let's not forget that despite his playoff heroics, he is not a proven winner. There is a very good chance he could fall flat on his face this year.

    2. With the rotation resolved, it is obvious a lineup that will feature Jeff Bagwell as its best hitter on opening day is in desparate need of some help. I think Burke will be a very good player, but Soriano is a dynamic offensive player already with power and speed. Strikes out too much, and his D isn't good either, but can it be much worse than Kent's last year? I don't think so, and I think Soriano could post better all-around #'s this year sandwiched between Berkman and Bagwell in the cleanup spot than Kent did last year batting 5th.

    If we can somehow get Cruz without giving up Lane, this is the lineup I want to see:

    Biggio/Lane LF
    Cruz/Taveras CF
    Berkman RF
    Soriano 2B
    Bagwell 1B
    Ensberg/Lamb 3B
    Everett SS
    Ausmus/Chavez C

    While not as good as last year, a middle-of-the-order of Berkman/Soriano/Bagwell is still pretty good.

    If either Lane, Cruz or Ensberg/Lamb can step up with 25HR/90RBI hitting 6th, we will be fine.

    Now as for the bullpen...?
     
  11. jtotheb

    jtotheb Contributing Member

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    Just out of curiousity, why do people keep talking about a possible Soriano trade? Didn't the Dallas/Ft. Worth papers say that all trade talks with the Astros were off? Didn't they just reach a one-year agreement with him?

    Can someone clear this up for me please......
     
  12. WoodlandsBoy

    WoodlandsBoy Contributing Member

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    The trade is off because we wouldn't include Backe.

    I personally would trade Berkman to get two solid player with good D and O. Preferably a center fielder and a catcher.

    Berkman is dumb player with an obvious weakness. He always screws up on the basepaths or throws to the wrong base from the outfield. Or swings at ball 4 with runners on and Kent coming to bat. I wish we could get rid of him and his bad knee.
     
  13. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Maybe Jeter and A-Rod?
     
  14. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

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    Or hits .300+

    Or hits 35-40 hr's

    Or drives in 100+ rbi

    Or walks 140 times

    Screw trading him. Just cut him. :rolleyes:

    By the way, with Kent and Beltran not around, wouldn't you think that the Astros need to keep as much production as possible around?
     
  15. Jturbofuel

    Jturbofuel Member

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    Berkman is a great player if you look at his numbers at this point in his career I would think his numbers are equal to Bagwells and may even surpass them.
     

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