Trump's supporters have said it has precedent, lying by omission of context. You know about 1876, where there were disputes and two slates of electors were sent for a number of states. These weren't fake or drummed-up electors, though. One set was certified by the governor and another set by the Secretary of State in those states. In 1960, there were also three sets sent. Hawaii thought Nixon won the state over JFK and certified the electors for Nixon (1st set). Three Democratic electors certified that JFK won even though the recount hadn't finished. There is no indication that they did it at the urging of JFK (Hawaii's result didn't matter to the outcome). A recount later showed JFK won, and a third slate of electors for JFK was certified and submitted. As VP, Nixon accepted the third slate for JFK. What's unique in 2020 was a candidate who lost the election pressured states to submit fake electors and pressured his VP to accept fake electors to overturn the result. That has no precedent. And we have yet to talk about the incitement of the January 6th insurrection, which the same Trump supporters have said is no big deal.
For those who don't follow closely, it's understandable. For those who do, they know exactly what Trump represents, but they simply don't care. Of course, there's always the chance that some are just too gullible or oblivious to see it.
My issue with trump completely relies on what he did after the election. That man stood in the oval office for 23 minutes cheering on violent rioters while telling Mark meadows that the rioters have more courage than mike pence and pence deserves to get hung. No amount of gas lighting by these folks @StupidMoniker can ever take away from the events of January 6 and they know it. They hate talking about it and ramble on about unrelated garbage cuz they wanna protect white supremacy Never in the history of this country has a president thrown his VP out to the wolves yet these folks wanna gaslight you and brainwash you that trump is another typical republican. The gas lighting is craz You're talking to someone who's shameless. Of course they support nixing civil rights act. That's been their wet dream for decades and trump is promising on doing it on day 1.
Not surprising at all you feel that way at all. I never took you for one who really cares about treating all humans equally, regardless of race or skin color. It goes a lot further than the "market" as you say. That's the problem with seeing everything in numbers, and not caring about human beings being treated differently, whether It's education, employment, housing, and access to the same privileges. Maybe you should watch the Green Book and see things from a human perspective.
Don't forget @StupidMoniker is a "district attorney" but has no issue with trump promising to pardon thousands of convicted felons many convicted of sedation. This is the same guy who talks about how important law nd order is in other threads and how black people are more dangerous. It's all about white supremacy with these people. They won't admit it but they all know that's what it's about. Frauds who sold-out America long time ago. They want white America back
He claimed I was lying about my job, I offered to bet $100,000 that I was not. He has decided not to accept this bet, but still likes to imply that I am lying about my job. He is a little b****.
for the record, when he isn't quoting/mentioning me on a daily basis he is harrassing someone else about "not taking a bet" I don't remember who That being said i detest online bets. As someone that has had to work my ass off to where I am I would much rather give it out on the street than bet on the internet for street cred lol I hope this culture comes to an end... after you get your 100K
So tear gassing and shooting with rubber bullets was a planned part of the photo op? For a libertarian I find your excusing the use of government force for a photo op very odd. It has to do with how different he is from previous presidents. I would say unethically profiting by a president off government function meant to protect himself has some major implications. In terms of policy it sets a very bad precedent for other Presidents to you don’t think the disposition of US military personnel is a big deal? Did he do so for personnel gain? Also several republicans and NATO Allie’s agreed with him. Trump was the first president to have a senator of his own party voted against him in impeachment over it. You can ask @Deckard wha my opinion of the Kennedy’s is but yes i think it was very unethical of JFK to appoint his brother to AG. I wasn’t alive then to post about it. As you note only one of those was a Republican and the official position that Jared Kushner held was much higher than James Eisenhower. From reports was that Kushner and Ivanka Trump held much more power and Ivanka Trump Even sat in place of the President during some international trade conferences. What I still find though most telling about your posts is that you seem so flippant about how different and dangerous Trump is than any other President. This isn’t just my or Rachel Maddows opinion but of Republicans who served in his administration like John Bolton, John Kelly and not one but two of his Secretary of defenses. Even Bill Barr has said that Trump neither understands or respects the Constitution. I find it telling that a self declared Libertarian would be more concerned about getting tax cuts than upholding the Constitution.
I’m going to add the words of another self described Libertarian about the danger and need to confront Trump. Representative Justin Amash who voted to impeach Trump. “President Donald J. Trump has abused and violated the public trust by using his high office to solicit the aid of a foreign power, not for the benefit of the United States of America but instead for his personal and political gain,” he continued. “His actions reflect precisely the type of conduct the Framers of the Constitution intended to remedy through the power of impeachment, and it is our duty to impeach him.”
I enjoy seeing the back and forth with different posters here but generally wondering has anyone ever changed their opinion or conceded that they were wrong and have now seen the light? I feel some people in the section especially are disingenuous at best and down right hypocrites at the worst...
Not many. Here change their opinions and I don’t expect people to change their opinions. I don’t pretend that what we do here is about making major changes most of this is a time Waster. What is valuable though is that the back and forth gives me an insight into wider thinking of others. Since I’m not on X most of what I see on X is from here. I frequently see an issue brought up here and then repeated in other media. also this forum isn’t a bubble and as we see there are posters from both the very Left and very Right. Whether there minds are Changed it is interesting to hear different views especially on an issue like Gaza. Finally the back and forth I find helps me to Sharpen my own thinking and approach these issues when talking to people in other contexts.
No. Tear gassing and shooting with rubber bullets was part of the plan for clearing the crowd that was told to disperse days earlier. It was completely unrelated to the photo op. That's because you have been told repeatedly that it was not about the photo op, but somehow are still connecting it. As I don't connect it to the photo op, but rather to the unlawful assembly (kind of like Jan 6, only at the White House), you think I am justifying use of force for a photo op. That's why you are confused. He also has orange skin and a terrible combover. None of that affects how his presidency affected or will affect me. Not really. If the Secret Service stays at Trump Tower or The Ritz Carlton, it makes no difference to anyone except the owners of those two hotels. At worst it is a relatively minor no bid contract, but I don't think we generally require the president's accommodations when travelling to be open to bidding. Which property they spend money at, not really. Which countries we invade or theaters we protect, yes. That's nice, how did that impeachment vote turn out? He wasn't removed from office. So multiple other presidents have appointed their close family members to high level positions. So this is not radically different than other presidents. The Constitution was upheld anyway (to the extent that it has been for the last 90 years or so anyway. Moreso than under more recent presidents because of the justices Trump put on the Supreme Court (see the overturning of Roe v. Wade). I look at the actual policies enacted, the actual actions taken, the actual people appointed, not the rhetoric. There is plenty I didn't like about Trump (why I didn't and won't vote for him), but in terms of his actual presidency, no he is not radically different than most Republicans, maybe a bit more willing to pass big handouts.
Your patience and willingness to engage in political debate is admirable. Even if the person is not responding in good faith. Comparing the use of tear gas and rubber bullets on a peaceful demonstration (that including clergy) so trump could do a photo op with the violent attack on the country's capital incited by the former president with the hope of overturning the election? Casually dismissing the efforts to enrich the then sitting president by requiring the use of his hotel properties at inflated prices? Continually defending trump's offenses then weakly and unbelievably claiming "I won't vote for the orange guy..." At least the other magas like commodore and basso are honest about their political beliefs...
You are a piece of work. Wow! I have to laugh at your desperate attempts to try and compare that grifting sociopathic compulsive lying con to any President in history with a straight face. Good grief. That is just MAGA cult mentality at its finest, regardless of what political affiliation you claim to be.
While Trump broke law after law and the GOP enabled him they decided to try to get back for the impeachments and wasted YEARS and tons of $$$$ chasing Biden for nothing. Instead of showing class and integrity and rooting out the evil in their own party in Trump, they embraced the cancer, now the GOP is infected with the nonsense...and will suffer for it for years to come. DD
