The Presidents of Harvard, MIT, Penn, Columbia should be forced to resign

I have yet to hear an argument made in good faith nor intellectual honesty to dispute or call into question said speech's explicit purpose - a violent mission motivated by hate.

If in the business of banning any at all, surely we must at least consider banning this hate speech, no?

 

No notes.

 

@AroundTheWorld rename your thread.

The Presidents of Harvard, MIT, Penn, Columbia and the PM of Israel should be forced to resign

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bk8mgcefr

 

Interesting to compare the Conservative approach to White Nationalist protests on college campuses ...

 

Greg Sargent/The New Republic:

This week, Mike Johnson floated a wild-eyed theory about the pro-Palestinian protests that have been rocking college campuses. The House speaker called on the FBI to get involved, adding: “I think they need to look at the root causes and find out if some of this was funded by, I don’t know, George Soros or overseas entities.”

Because such talk has become routine, Johnson’s claim didn’t garner much media attention. But Democrats can and should act to compel media attention to it. And they have a big opportunity to do so: Johnson is planning high-profile hearings about the protests in coming weeks, which will include grilling university officials about whether administrators are doing enough to combat antisemitism on campuses.​

 

So, “hate speech”, if that’s what you want to consider it, is not in and of itself illegal I don’t believe.

https://www.thefire.org/news/hate-speech-protected-first-amendment

Here is how FIRE explains when hate speech is no longer protected:

1. Incitement to imminent lawless action (incitement);
2. speech that threatens serious bodily harm (true threats); or
3. speech that causes an immediate breach of the peace (fighting words).

​

Do you think chanting slogans like “globalize the Intifada” or “from the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free” qualifies as any of those?

Maybe it could be argued that calling for “Intifada” is an incitement to lawlessness. I think the legal standard is that it must be calling for imminent lawlessness and it must make that likely to occur.

 

Talking to an admin at a different university, I heard this sentiment -- a student group applied for and got permission to protest and then "outside agitators" join in. First of all, the argument that a movement is somehow illegitimate because it is infiltrated by "outside agitators" has a not-so-proud history stretching back to the French Revolution, at least. But also, to add a little nuance, the protest at my old school includes all kinds of people with connections to the university (undergrads, graduate students, professors, staff, alumni, etc) but also is seen as a safe space for protest by people who are in the community but not formally affiliated -- people who live in the neighborhood, students at the local high school, students for neighboring colleges where the culture and admin will brook no protest. It's debatable whether the presence of those non-affiliated people is legitimate, but reporting like the above insinuates that these are maybe semi-pro protesters, like antifa groups or counter-protester plants. And maybe there are some, but it's probably not 29%. There are "regular people" who want in.

NY Times has an article on my school's protest (paywall): University of Chicago’s Pro-Palestinian Encampments Test Commitment to Free Speech - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

The university sends me emails. They really want to stretch the loin cloth of neutrality over this whole thing. They insist that, as a high-minded academic institution, that they cannot allow free speech in the academic community unless they as an institution remain neutral. But the protest isn't about what IDF is doing, but what the university is doing -- investing in arms manufacturers, maintaining ties with Israeli institutions, but also exploiting the surrounding black community and oppressing them with the university police force and their large real estate holdings. I don't agree with all the protest's demands, but they are definitely focused on the university's own conduct. They refuse to talk about their own actions and pretend that's neutrality. It's like if you told an apparel maker that some of their subcontractors were using slave labor and they responded by saying they believe in entrepreneurialism and they're ideologically opposed to meddling in the internal affairs of someone else's company. That doesn't make you high-minded; that makes you complicit. From my point of view, it is potentially okay for the school to do what it does, but it is not okay to not engage and to pretend like they are above the debate.

 

None of this matters - and this is always the fall back position of Israeli supporters.

I don't care that there is only one Jewish state - that means zero to me. There are lots of groups of people that do not have a state. Where is the Assyrian state? Where is the Kurdish state? Where is the Roma state? Where is the Hmong state?

As for Israel "offering freedom to all it's citizens" - they forced out the Palestinians. Israel should give citizenship to all the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza then. They won't, because it would result in radically different voting outcomes.

Israel being a democracy means little to me when they force out the existing population and only allow in enough Palestinians to not influence the voting outcome. When you have 7 million Palestinians that don't have voting rights - you don't have a democracy.

Israel defends itself? That is true, there are groups that would love nothing than to push them into the sea. That is partially religious and partially that 75 years ago a bunch of Jews from Europe with the backing of the English decided they would force out existing groups of people that had been there for thousands of years. That part is always conveniently forgotten. When you do that - there are consequences and in the 21st century a lot of people will think poorly of you.

Israel is one of the problems in the Middle East - they are not the only problem.

I have been very critical of Islam around the globe. I don't believe the spread of Islam into the Middle East was in anyway in the best interest of the people living in the Middle East. It brought peace for a short period of time and then brutality. Having said that though - there are Christians in Africa that have attempted Genocide against Muslims and in the Middle East Jews have pushed out Muslims and claimed land as their own.

If the state of Israel was honest about what they have done and continue to do - I would have more respect. They are not the first or last nation to oppress and force out or kill an existing population. Is it right? No, I don't think so and a lot of people don't think so... but it is also human nature.

We are now in a situation where there are many living in Israel, and it would be wrong to force them all to relocate after existing for 70 years. This situation is much like South Africa in that regard. Those on the right in the Israeli government is well aware of what happened to the white majority when they allowed all the black Africans to vote - and Israel will not survive a similar situation. So - the only real solution is either the elimination of the Palestinians or even a forced land exchange. However, the issue is that right now the Palestinians are lead by extremists - which is something that has been systematically encouraged and pushed by some in the high levels of Israel. Also - Israel is right to be scared of a Palestinian state that is larger than Israel.

It is a very complicated situation. I do think that it is possible for Israel to form alliances with their neighbors - and that would protect them.

I have had a lot of Zionists and even some atheists ask me if I would rather raise my family in Israel or some place like Iran with Islamic rule. The answer is clearly Israel - but that is a separate question. I do not have an issue with Israelis - in fact many of my friends are Jews. I have an issue with how Israel supports are disingenuous framing the issue. At one point about 25 years ago I was very close to being a practicing Jew - and I still find the faith compelling and the culture overall beneficial.

 

And this is why Trump is exactly what America needs right now....

 

Trump might try reading the US Constitution ... or locate a copy thereof that has more pictures than words.

1A protected speech is as American as Apple Pies, Moms and Chevys.

 

she hasn't missed many meals in her life.

 

The pro Hamas protesters apparently gives zero *** on the environment as well..