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Decline of golden age for American Jews

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Apr 27, 2024.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    From Clea Simon at Harvard:

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2024/03/decline-of-golden-age-for-american-jews/

    Decline of golden age for American Jews
    Franklin Foer recounts receding antisemitism of past 100 years, recent signs of resurgence of hate, historical pattern of scapegoating

    “Jews didn’t have to accept the devil’s bargain [where] the cost of citizenship was assimilation. In the United States, you could be your Jewish self.”

    Franklin Foer

    “There were certain ideas that Jews played a role in championing and helped to develop. One of these we can broadly describe as liberalism: There was cultural pluralism; there were ideas about tolerance. There were ideas about the universal protection of minority rights
    and civil liberties.”

    Franklin Foer

    “When things [happen] that are difficult to comprehend, like a pandemic, people begin searching for something to blame,” he explained. As happened in Europe during the Middle Ages when the Black Plague hit, that “something” was the Jews.

    “People may not even realize that they have this reservoir of narratives. But when events happen, Jews get depicted as the villains.” He cited Trump’s disparagement of former Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein and philanthropist George Soros. Once such antisemitism became acceptable, he said, “it started pouring out.”

    At that point, Passow raised a point from Foer’s article, asking what form contemporary antisemitism assumes on either side of the political spectrum.

    From the right, Foer said, it takes the form of the so-called great replacement theory, whose adherents believe Jews are conspiring with Black and brown people to replace white Christians. In this theory, he said, Jews “are agents who can pass in white society but are seen as doing the bidding of Black and brown people.” For example, “George Soros getting blamed for the ‘invasion’ on the Southern border.”

    On the left, he continued, it takes a different form. “Increasingly it’s integrally tied up in debates about Israel” and the war in Gaza.

    “There are very non-antisemitic ways to criticize the state of Israel,” he pointed out. “Much of American Jewry is very critical of Israeli policy.”

    Still, he continued, there is a strain of anti-Zionism that utilizes ancient tropes to blame Jews, reviving the myth of a cabal of Jews more loyal to Israel than to America. “It alleges that American Jews are manipulating American foreign policy; they’re manipulating American universities.”
     
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  2. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    I don't understand why there is such a concerted effort to blur the boundaries of being critical of Zionism and the modern state of Israel and being critical of ethnic and religious Jews in the US and the World on the left and right. You can be critical of political movements, governments, and countries while not being prejudiced carte blanche.
     
  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    https://www.jta.org/2023/03/19/ideas/which-side-are-you-on-jewish-american-or-american-jew

    Which side are you on: Jewish American or American Jew?

    (JTA) — Earlier this month the New York Times convened what it called a “focus group of Jewish Americans.” I was struck briefly by that phrase — Jewish Americans — in part because the Times, like the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, tends to prefer “American Jews.”

    It’s seemingly a distinction without a difference, although I know others might disagree. There is an argument that “American Jew” smacks of disloyalty, describing a Jew who happens to be American. “Jewish American,” according to this thinking, flips the script: an American who happens to be Jewish.

    If pressed, I’d say I prefer “American Jew.” The noun “Jew” sounds, to my ear anyway, more direct and more assertive than the tentative adjective “Jewish.” It’s also consistent with the way JTA essentializes “Jew” in its coverage, as in British Jew, French Jew, LGBT Jew or Jew of color.

    I wouldn’t have given further thought to the subject if not for a webinar last week given by Arnold Eisen, the chancellor emeritus at the Jewish Theological Seminary. In “Jewish-American, American-Jew: The Complexities and Joys of Living a Hyphenated Identity,” Eisen discussed how a debate over language is really about how Jews navigate between competing identities.

    Eisen calls this the “question of Jewish difference.” Eisen grew up in an observant Jewish family in Philadelphia, and understood from an early age that his family was different from their Vietnamese-, Italian-, Ukrainian- and African-American neighbors. On the other hand, they were all the same — that is, American — because they were all hyphenated. “Being parallel to all these other differences, gave me my place in the city and in the country,” he said.

    In college he studied the Jewish heavy hitters who were less sanguine about the integration of American and Jewish identities. Eisen calls Rabbi Mordecai Kaplan, the renegade theologian at JTS, “the thinker who really made this question uppermost for American Jews.” Kaplan wrote in 1934 that Jewishness could only survive as a “subordinate civilization” in the United States, and that the “Jew in America will be first and foremost an American, and only secondarily a Jew.”

    Kaplan’s prescription was a maximum effort on the part of Jews to “save the otherness of Jewish life” – not just through synagogue, but through a Jewish “civilization” expressed in social relationships, leisure activities and a traditional moral and ethical code.

    Of course, Kaplan also understood that there was another way to protect Jewish distinctiveness: move to Israel.

    The political scientist Charles Liebman, in “The Ambivalent American Jew” (1973), argued that Jews in the United States were torn between surviving as a distinct ethnic group and integrating into the larger society.

    According to Eisen, Liebman believed that “Jews who make ‘Jewish’ the adjective and ‘American’ the noun tend to fall on the integration side of the hyphen. And Jews who make ‘Jew’ the noun and ‘American’ the adjective tend to fall on the survival side of the hyphen.”
     
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  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Perhaps the reason is that a large group of Jewish people in the US do not feel like they are Americans and are really still in exile waiting to go back to the now established Israel, a self-declared homeland for Jewish people, ethnic and religious.
     
  5. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    But the reality is everyone can be an American as its neither a religion nor an ethnicity but a nationality.
     
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  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Wishful thinking by the Muslims.
     
  7. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    This thread is not about Muslims or Christians. And the authors above are Jewish Americans (or perhaps American Jews?).
     
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  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Jews will always be hated because of their financial success. In the middle ages and during the holocaust they were easy targets to rob.

    No matter what the scapegoating centers on like the Black Plague, people are ultimately envious of their success

    Them having influence with their wealth makes it worse with the West backing of Israel

    Edit: because Jews have been financially successful while being essentially segregated in the past from Christian whites dries the jealousy/conspiracies
     
    #8 pgabriel, Apr 27, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2024
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Only Muslims hate Jews, haven't you paid attention to ATW's spamming?
     
    #9 pgabriel, Apr 27, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2024
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  10. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    it's not even that, it's an invoice, a transcript, uncleaned toilets and unpicked crops

    but it's on a movie set; so you gotta look the part to play the part, regardless of skills or experience
     
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  11. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    I always thought anti-Semitism was mostly religiously based, with envy or resentment over perceived Jewish "success" being a later contributing cause that emerged over time. And the establishment of the State of Israel is another chapter in fueling anti-Semitic sentiments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_and_the_New_Testament

    A. Roy Eckardt, a writer in the field of Jewish-Christian relations,[72] said that the foundation of antisemitism and responsibility for the Holocaust lies ultimately in the New Testament.[73] Eckardt insisted that Christian repentance must include a reexamination of basic theological attitudes toward Jews and the New Testament in order to deal effectively with antisemitism.[74] Other historians, such as Richard Steigmann-Gall, have said that Nazism as a whole was either unrelated to Christianity or actively opposed to it.[75]

    According to Louis Feldman, the term "antisemitism" is an "absurdity which the Jews took over from the Germans." He thinks the proper term is anti-Judaism.[76] The distinction between anti-Judaism and antisemitism is often made, or challenged,[77] with regard to early Christian hostility to Jews: some, notably Gavin I. Langmuir,[78] prefer anti-Judaism, which implies a theological enmity. They say that the concept of antisemitism "makes little sense" in the nascent days of the Christian religion and that it would not emerge until later.[79] In this context, the term antisemitism implies the secular biological race theories of modern times.[80] Peter Schäfer prefers the word Judaeophobia for pagan hostility to Jews, but considers the word antisemitism, even if anachronistic, synonymous with this term, while adding that Christian anti-Judaism eventually was crucial to what later became antisemitism.[81] Dunn says that the various New Testament expressions of anger and hurt by a minority puzzled by the refusal of a majority to accept their claims about Jesus the Jew reflect inner tensions between Jewish communities not yet unified by rabbinical Judaism, and a Christianity not yet detached from Judaism.[71] The Greek word Ioudaioi used throughout the New Testament could refer either to Jews or, more restrictively, to Judeans alone.



    https://uscatholic.org/articles/201209/a-jewish-take-on-jesus-amy-jill-levine-talks-the-gospels/

    How do you deal with a really problematic passage, like “Let his blood be upon us and our children” from Matthew’s account of the passion?
    An unfortunate interpretation of that verse is what led to the idea that Jews are perpetually guilty and perpetually damned for the death of Jesus. And that’s what Nostra Aetate corrected.

    I don’t think Matthew was thinking about 200 years later, let alone 2,000 years later. I think for Matthew “all the people” meant the particular people who happened to be in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus, because it’s their children who would have seen the destruction of the city by the Romans 30 years after his crucifixion. Matthew understands the destruction of Jerusalem to be prompted by the city’s general failure to accept the Christian message.
     
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  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    For some reason to me "Jew" seems like an insult. I just don't like to use it.

    I really think what separates Jewish people in identity even as it relates to being American is how much they practice their faith.


    I think aside from Black Americans there is always a lot of variety of in ethnicities and Religion how much individual relate to be American first
     
  13. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    with one notable exception

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Thats actually one of the methods used to help.date when the synoptic gospels.were written.

    Closer to the events, speaking to Jewish converts, lower antisemitism.

    Further removed, the Christians were not pulled from a pool of Jews, but rather general population equals much more antisemitism.

    "Synoptic" gospels give a synopsis of events, so tell the story of Jesus. You can compare and contrast to find the exact same story told with and without blaming the Jews. Interesting compare/contrast.
     
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  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    In terms of the Holocaust, Hitler wasn't religious but I won't disagree that antisemitism is mostly religion based, I do think their financial success still plays a large role as in terms of the conspiracies revolves around money and they play a large role in the hatred

    Edit: I guess antisemitism is so old you have to break it down into time periods. For some personal reason, even when it's very clear like the klu klux klan, people hating jews for not accepting christ is just so ass backwards logically in terms of being a Christian it doesn't reaonate with me. Wow you claim Jesus and this is how you show it?
     
    #15 pgabriel, Apr 27, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2024
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  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    https://www.annefrank.org/en/topics/antisemitism/why-did-hitler-hate-jews/

    Here is something on Hitler's antisemitism.

    During the First World War (1914-1918), Hitler was a soldier in the German army. At the end of the war he, and many other German soldiers like him, could not get over the defeat of the German Empire. The German army command spread the myth that the army had not lost the war on the battlefield, but because they had been betrayed. By a ‘stab in the back’, as it was called at the time. Hitler bought into the myth: Jews and communists had betrayed the country and brought a left-wing government to power that had wanted to throw in the towel.
     
  17. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    It’s not hating Christ; it’s killing Christ. This is all one needs to believe before you make the next step of hating Jews since they are rich, elite, etc.

    I suspect that this is what drives White Christian Nationalists to make hating Jews one of their central tenets.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Not "@accepting" christ. I mean a current Jewish person or one 200 years ago could still accept Jesus as their savior. I'm not arguing as much as saying refusal of Jesus as the messiah is big in Christian antisemitism
     
  19. K9Texan

    K9Texan Member
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    It's spiritual. Look at the countless numbers of leftists around the world with a cult-like devotion to helping Palestinians to destroy Israel and its Jews. Undoubtedly, most of them are far-left atheists under significant demonic influence.
     
  20. K9Texan

    K9Texan Member
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    Such so-called "Christians" either don't understand or willfully ignore that God, for his own purposes, is presently disallowing most Israeli Jews from following Jesus. In other words, they are temporarily blinded by GOD to the truth of Jesus.

    Romans 11:25
    English Standard Version

    The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
    25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
     

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