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The Presidents of Harvard, MIT, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Penn should be forced to resign

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Dec 5, 2023.

  1. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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  2. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  3. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    How do you define “working on their behalf”?

    1A protections exist for citizens and non-citizens alike, don’t they? If a US citizen is allowed to express support for something we all rightly consider to be awful, then I think the same should be true for a non-citizen.

    Do you agree or disagree with that?

    As for campus protests, I think universities should permit some level of political activism if they’re peaceful and not intentionally blocking access to buildings. Regardless of how righteous their cause is or which coddled group is made to feel “unsafe” by the words spoken.

    If protesters are threatening people or selectively targeting certain passersby, they should face punishment.

    It also seems to me there are a lot of agitators (both pro-Israeli and anti-Israeli) who are intentionally trying to create physical confrontations. That needs to stop.
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Do you consider a professor who wants to be able to walk anywhere on campus an "agitator who intentionally tries to create a physical confrontation" by just existing?

    Do you think visibly Jewish people should have to stay away from groups of pro-Hamas protesters, and should have their access cards revoked to enforce them staying away?

    What do you consider a "counter-protest"? If someone says they just want to be there, is that a counter-protest?
     
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  5. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    We see some educators here on this forum who are not taking a clear moral stance against Islamist terrorism and anti-semitism, because they are leftists.

     
  6. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I already said protesters shouldn’t selectively target passersby. I don’t think they should selectively target people who are just “being there” either.

    I think there should be certain rules that counter protestors abide by, to avoid physical confrontations on university campuses that could quickly spiral into a riot. That’s my position, regardless of whether these counter protesters are leftists, conservatives, pro-Palestinian, or pro-Israelis.

    Purposely trying to organize shouting matches between groups of protesters, which could easily devolve into violence (and perhaps with that outcome being desired), is not a good idea. The university is right to disallow it.
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    So whoever occupies a space first and shouts louder and possibly has more people around can effectively exclude minorities (like Jews) from participating in normal campus life.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    That isn’t what I said. Protests can lead to some disruption to normal campus life — that’s the price of valuing free speech on college campuses. But if that disruption is specifically targeting certain students or faculty on account of them being Jewish, or if they become violent, that is wrong and needs to stop. I think I’ve said it multiple times.

    As I’ve said earlier, universities need to find a balance between permitting protests (even for viewpoints that are ugly and uncomfortable) and maintaining the general peace. It’s a difficult problem. Some concrete limits probably need to be imposed and enforced for the duration and scale of these protests. I don’t see how a university can function properly otherwise.
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

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    I agree with everything you said, in principle - as I often do - but in practice, at these universities like Columbia, Michigan, Penn, etc., it is really hard to not have the perception that the administration and a significant percentage of the faculty actually side with the pro-Hamas hate activists and target the victims of harassment instead of those who are creating the disruption and promoting hate.

    When it becomes clear that it is not a "peaceful protest" but starts targeting students of a different faith or race and promotes recognized terror groups, these "protests" have to be met with the full force of the law.

    I understand that one of the excuses is "but there are only a few bad apples, most of the protesters are peaceful" - but that's tough luck then. If they can't "police their own" and continue to march and stand with the bad apples, then they have become accessories and need to live with the consequences.
     
  10. JuanValdez

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    Not a twitterer, but I want a #StopArrestingOurKids trend.

    I have a kid at college. Not one in the news this month but they've arrested kids in the past for a sit-in in an Admin office. If you're doing a sit-in at an Admin office, I hope you're planning to be arrested. But the recent arrests at Columbia and NYU are students sitting outside on the quad. As a parent, I'd be pissed that the institution I pay tens of thousands to called the cops on my kid and pursued trespassing charges against them for sitting outside in a place I pay for them to be. In fact, it's not impossible that my kid does get arrested in exactly that scenario. Then we have to decide if this institution is worthy of my child's matriculation.

    There and at Columbia, the issue of the sit-ins is not protesting Israel or the war, though there is anti-war sentiment. The demand is to change the rules that govern the investment choices for the schools' large endowments, specifically their choice to invest in a weapons manufacturer. Reforming the social responsibility framework around the investment book seems to me to be a Specific, Measurable, Actionable, Realistic, and Time-bound goal to pursue. It relates to their own complicity in war by being associated with an institution that invests in war, so their activity is relevant. I'm sure folks will find this or that anecdote of antisemitic behavior by some protestor, but I don't believe it is fundamentally antisemitic and has many Jews and even Israelis involved, because it is more about ESG than it is anti-Zionism. So, to have a kid arrested over that, over demanding changes to ESG -- not just ignored or denied but actually arrested, suspended, and perhaps denied a diploma -- is plain ridiculous.
     
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  11. tinman

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  12. Astrodome

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    These aren't just students. The left needs to chill with the funding of these folks.
     
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  13. AroundTheWorld

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    Arrest them.
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

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    "Depends on context"
     
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  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  18. AroundTheWorld

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  19. AroundTheWorld

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