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Hamas attacks Israel: Yom Kippur War, 50 years on

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  2. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    His op-ed in Newsweek:

    Israel Implemented More Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties Than Any Other Nation in History | Opinion (newsweek.com)

    Some measures have been taken to reduce civilian casualties, due to diplomatic necessity. There's also a lot of effort to minimize or cast doubt on the suffering that is unquestionably taking place.

    That said, I don't agree with Rogan's use of the word "genocide". I think that word requires a very high bar of evidence for establishing intent to kill a people, not merely a disregard for collateral deaths. I don't think that bar has been met. And I understand why Jews would take exception to politicized use of that term. It really does appear as exploiting their people's history as victims of genocide to shame them for the present actions of Israel. How we use words matters, and I see this trend of diluting or changing the meaning of words for political expediency which I can't stand.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  5. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  6. AkeemTheDreem86

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    The humanitarian disaster in Gaza is the main feature of the elected government of Gaza's attack on Israel, not a bug.

    Conversely, the humanitarian disaster in Gaza is the main bug of Israel's response to the elected government of Gaza's attack on Israel, not a feature.

    Even still, Israel has facilitated hundreds of thousands of tons of aid to the Gazan people, despite the fact that their own elected government has stolen most of it.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aipac.org/resources/israel-humanitarian-aid-gaza?format=amp

    So even though it's Hamas' responsibility, Israel has taken it on.
     
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  7. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I don’t think any of this is in disagreement with what I wrote. Israeli leadership has taken on some of the responsibility (while maintaining it is 100% Hamas’s responsibility) with significant diplomatic pressure from regional allies and its weapons dealer (the US).
     
  8. AkeemTheDreem86

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    I guess I take issue with the statement that the humanitarian disaster "does not register as a responsibility", when they've clearly taken on so much responsibility.

    I also don't find it necessary to diminish Israel's contribution and attempts to offset the humanitarian disaster in Gaza brought on by their own elected government (Hamas) - who started the war in the first place by breaking a ceasefire and brutally massacring Israeli civilians - through qualifying it on outside pressure.
     
  9. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  10. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I think I have fairly represented what’s going on, based on their own words and the words of people negotiating with them to do more to allow humanitarian aid to get to the people.

    There’s not much point in quibbling over how much they truly “care” about the humanitarian disaster unfolding in Gaza. To be clear, I don’t believe Israel is uniquely “heartless” in this respect. Any state with Israel’s military capacity would likely respond in a similar manner against a comparable threat. It is up to ordinary people and humanitarian relief groups to put pressure on governments to respect international law as far as reducing civilian casualties and allowing aid to get to people in war-zones.
     
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  11. AkeemTheDreem86

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    How do we know the protesters were peaceful when the video starts in the middle of the altercation?
     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    So now we don't like Joe Rogan. Does Tinman know? ;):p
     
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  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    My understanding is that the IDF does take steps to limit civilian casualties but given that Gaza is one of the densest places in the World it's impossible to not have civilian casualties and a lot of them. On top of that Israel has maintained a policy of collective punishment including economic blockade of Gaza which already meant conditions weren't good to begin with.

    As stated earlier standard strategy for assymetric warfare is for combatants to hide among the civilian population. This was true for Iraqi militias, the Viet Cong, and the IRA. That almost always means that there are a lot of civilian casualties inflicted by the stronger force.
     
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  14. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Rogan could be wrong on stuff but he at least he’s willing to see both sides like Phil Collins
     
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  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    That sure looked like they arrested one guy with relatively minimal force. Was the text supposed to refer to something other than what was shown in the video?
     
  17. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  18. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    You seriously can't be this braindead dumb can you. Do you think the amount of aid needing to come in during is the same when shops and markets are open versus in the middle of the war with 80% of the buildings destroyed.

    I have no idea how you're a successful executive. You hit the right lottery cuz youre not very bright at all
     
  19. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I also want Netanyahu to do more.
     

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