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538: Dobbs turned abortion into a huge liability for Republicans

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Jun 22, 2023.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Full article at link

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dobbs-abortion-opinion-liability-republicans/
    Support for abortion rights is higher than it's been in decades.

    [​IMG]

    When the Supreme Court overturned the federal right to abortion, between 50 and 60 percent of Americans wanted the right to stay in place. But while abortion was legal throughout the country up to a certain point in pregnancy, Americans had the luxury of not having strong or cohesive views on the topic, or thinking much about abortion at all. Their views were messy and sometimes contradictory, and there was little evidence suggesting that the issue was a political priority for anyone except Christian conservatives. In the fall of 2021, with the Dobbs case looming on the horizon, many Americans thought that Roe wasn’t in real danger.

    Now, a FiveThirtyEight analysis finds that after one of the most disruptive Supreme Court decisions in generations, many Americans — including women, young people, and Democrats — are reporting more liberal views on abortion than major pollsters have seen in years. Even conservatives, although the changes are slight, are increasingly supportive of abortion rights. There are other signs that longstanding views are shifting: For instance, Americans are more open to the idea of unrestricted third-trimester abortion than they were even a year ago. And although it’s hard to predict what will shape upcoming elections, there are indications that abortion has the potential to be a major motivator for some Americans when they go to vote in 2024.


    In the past year, there’s been more coverage of how the loss of abortion rights affects ordinary people, as well as future threats to abortion access, which may be shaping people's perspectives. Polling by KFF conducted last month found that awareness of mifepristone, one of two pills commonly used for medication abortion, has doubled since the beginning of the year, with nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of Americans saying they had heard of the drug in May, compared to only 31 percent in January. Major knowledge gaps still remain: KFF found that most Americans are unaware that mifepristone, when correctly used, is safer than common drugs like Tylenol or Viagra, and there’s widespread confusion in states where abortion is limited or banned about whether abortion is legal. But the topic is much more ubiquitous than it was a year ago.

    “People started having conversations about abortion,” said Tresa Undem, a co-founder of the nonpartisan research firm PerryUndem. “And most Americans support abortion rights so if you’re having a conversation, you’re more likely to encounter pro-choice people and their views and attitudes. You’re learning other viewpoints. And that’s when we see attitudes starting to change.”

    Perhaps most crucially for Republican politicians, who have mostly doubled down on abortion restrictions despite backlash in swing states during the 2022 midterms, no subgroup in Gallup’s data has become notably more conservative on first-trimester abortion since Dobbs. The KFF poll found that Americans are much more likely to say that the Democratic Party best represents their views on abortion (42 percent), rather than the Republican Party (26 percent).


    And a YouGov/CBS News poll conducted earlier this month found that the 57 percent of Americans who think the Dobbs decision has mostly been bad for the country aren’t just worried about the impact on abortion access: 81 percent of that group saw the ruling as bad because a constitutional right was taken away. Steve Baker, 63, lives in Ohio and is registered as a Republican but identifies as an independent. He said that to him, the demise of Roe felt like the canary in the coal mine. “Losing the right to abortion is just the trickle as we start to lose more individual rights,” he said. “The right to marry. Other rights. What’s happening with abortion is important, don’t get me wrong, but I feel concerned about those too.”


    More people think third-trimester abortion should be legal
    One of the most surprising post-Dobbs trends is the speed with which some Americans have embraced the view that abortion should be legal with no restrictions at all times, including the late second trimester and early third trimester. Under Roe and the precedents that followed, states were free to enact restrictions on abortion after a fetus could potentially live outside a woman’s body — which meant, in practice, that some states were allowed to ban abortion after about 20 weeks of pregnancy, although medical experts say that viability usually happens between 23 and 26 weeks. That dividing line wasn’t especially controversial. Many blue states, including major Democratic strongholds like California, restricted abortion after viability, and the vast majority of Americans believed that abortion should be mostly illegal in the third trimester of pregnancy.

    That’s changing — and fast. Third-trimester abortion is still unpopular overall, but in Gallup’s polling, it has close to majority support among some subgroups, which would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. For example, the share of women who think abortion should be legal in the last trimester of pregnancy jumped from 11 percent in 2018 to 25 percent in 2023. One-third (33 percent) of people ages 18-34 think abortion should be legal in the last trimester, up from 14 percent in 2018. And a stunning 43 percent of Democrats think abortion should be legal in the third trimester, up from 18 percent in 2018. “I’ve become more solidified in the belief that there should be very little law around any abortion,” said Meredith MacVittie, 41, who lives in the suburbs of Philadelphia. “If there were some regulations on abortion after 30 weeks, something like a second opinion, maybe that would be okay.” She paused and added, “It’s very hard for me to give up the sense that politicians just shouldn’t be having a say in this decision at all.”


    ....
     
  2. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    conti...


    Americans are thinking about abortion when they vote
    Over the past few months, seven Republican-controlled state legislatures have passed restrictions or bans on abortion in the first trimester of pregnancy — despite the fact that Americans in states where abortion is limited want access to be more available, not less. A poll conducted in late March and early April by the Pew Research Center found that people in areas of the country where abortion is restricted or illegal are likelier than they were four years ago to say that abortion should be easier, not harder, to obtain. The same survey found that 62 percent of Americans — including 39 percent of Republicans — think states are making it too hard, rather than too easy, to get an abortion.

    Those findings are part of the reason why abortion is unlikely to fade from voters’ minds as the next major election cycle rears its head. But there are also signs that the issue is becoming personal for many people in a way that it wasn’t before, which could make it harder for abortion rights to fade into the background as other issues, like the economy, come to the fore.

    The Dobbs ruling didn’t just change laws — it changed people’s lives. Data collected by #WeCount, a research project led by the Society of Family Planning, and analyzed by FiveThirtyEight estimates that tens of thousands of people were displaced to other states for abortions in the first nine months after the Supreme Court’s decision, and thousands more were unable to receive a legal abortion at all. But polling also shows that people are shifting their behavior in other ways. That KFF survey conducted in May found that reproductive-age women are taking more precautions around pregnancy because of concerns about their ability to access abortion: About 3 in 10 women between the ages of 18 and 49 say that they or someone they know has started using long-term contraceptives or stocked up on emergency contraceptives, and about 1 in 5 delayed getting pregnant, while a similar number got permanently sterilized.

    ...

    The groups that seem disproportionately motivated by abortion rights don’t represent a majority of American voters. But the 2022 midterms signaled that they do have a significant amount of power, particularly if abortion is galvanizing voters who might otherwise feel unenthusiastic about Democratic candidates. A recent analysis of the Latino vote by Equis Research found that Latinos who chose abortion as their top issue were overwhelmingly likely to vote for Democrats, and turned out at rates that were higher than analysts had predicted before the election.

    All of these findings suggest that abortion will remain a potent political issue as the 2024 election cycle ramps up — and after years of pushing for more abortion restrictions without much backlash, Republicans are on the defensive. In the wake of the Dobbs decision, the country, and particularly key Democratic constituencies, are more supportive of abortion rights than they’ve been in years, and there’s no sign that the issue is becoming less important to them.
     
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  3. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

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    Oh this liability is already being addressed with scary trans tweets.
     
  4. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    You think suburban women turned the GOP because of Trump in the last election, wait until this election cycle.
     
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  5. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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  6. FrontRunner

    FrontRunner Member

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    New abortion law drives out NC’s scarce supply of OB-GYNs & primary care doctors

    CharlotteObserver.com
    BY TEDDY ROSENBLUTH UPDATED SEPTEMBER 20, 2023 12:21 PM

    Dr. Nicole Teal was working a night shift in September 2022, when a patient came into UNC Medical Center’s labor and delivery unit with a particularly dangerous set of symptoms.

    Her blood pressure had suddenly spiked. Her platelets were decreasing. Liver enzymes in her blood were rising. She had the hallmarks of severe preeclampsia, one of the leading causes of death for pregnant women.

    “I don’t want to threaten my life,” Teal recalled the patient telling her. “I’d like an abortion.”

    After four years of medical school, four years of training to become an OB-GYN and now, nearly three years of specialized maternal-fetal medicine training, Teal knew her patient’s instincts were in line with medical recommendations.

    At 21 weeks, the fetus was unlikely to survive outside the womb, and without intervention, the patient was at risk of “catastrophic” complications like seizures, strokes and renal failure.

    But about a month earlier, the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to overrule Roe v. Wade allowed a 20-week abortion ban to take effect in North Carolina. To end the pregnancy, Teal would have to be able to show it was an imminent risk to her patient’s life.

    The patient did not yet meet that legal bar. So they waited.

    “I watched her for several days until she got sick enough — until her organs were starting to fail,” she said. “Then we could provide her abortion.”

    The following months brought a string of similar cases. Even though she split her time between research and clinical work, Teal estimated North Carolina law forced her to delay care about once every two months. She imagined it would become even more common once the state’s newest abortion law, which bans most abortions after 12 weeks, took effect in July.

    When Teal’s maternal-fetal medicine fellowship ended in June, she was offered what would have been a dream job: a faculty position in UNC’s Department of Obstetrics & Gynecology.

    She loved her patients and colleagues in North Carolina. She was passionate about her research and had a grant that would fund it for years to come. Her parents lived close enough to Chapel Hill that they could visit their 2-year-old grandson every month.

    But Teal couldn’t help but replay patient conversations in her mind: My recommendation is to terminate your pregnancy, but I can’t do that until you get a little sicker. She remembered their faces, staring back in disbelief.

    She accepted a job in San Diego, where there is no gestational limit on abortion.

    The News & Observer interviewed several doctors at different stages of their careers — from those in the midst of training to those with well-established medical practices — who plan to take their expertise elsewhere due to the state’s new abortion laws.

    These are not just doctors who have made abortions a central part of their jobs, though those doctors are leaving, too. They are primary care providers. They are rural obstetricians. The kinds of doctors that the state has a critical shortage of.

    It’s too soon to know how many doctors will choose to leave, or how many will avoid moving to the state in the first place. But in North Carolina — where almost a quarter of counties lack a single OB-GYN and more than 90% of counties are considered “primary care shortage areas” — losing a handful of doctors would have major consequences for the patients they leave behind...
     
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  7. FrontRunner

    FrontRunner Member

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    (Continued)

    A CRITICAL SHORTAGE


    A few hours before his shift ends, Dr. Alan Rosenbaum begins transferring his patients to other hospitals.

    On the Western edge of North Carolina, where Rosenbaum is often contracted to fill in for short-staffed labor and delivery units, there is such a dearth of obstetricians that some hospitals have no choice but to shut down the ward after he drives home to Cary.

    “If there’s no doctor, you can’t have a labor and delivery unit,” he said.

    Newly postpartum patients are loaded into ambulances beside their tiny, pink babies.

    Sicker women leave in helicopters.

    Patients who arrive too late are told to drive to the next nearest hospital, which is sometimes 40 minutes away, if they want to see an OB-GYN.

    Rosenbaum finds his contract-work in rural hospitals fulfilling. The extra income helps his family pay off $250,000 in medical school debt. But North Carolina’s newest abortion law has made it too risky for him to continue.

    Even though Rosenbaum does not perform elective abortions, he imagined the professional and ethical dilemmas the new legislation would create.

    If a pregnant woman arrived severely hemorrhaging, could he clear the fetus from her uterus to stop the bleeding? Or would he have to wait until she got sicker, lost more blood, before the situation fit lawmakers’ definition of a “medical emergency.”

    Hours after the governor’s veto of the abortion bill was overridden by Republican lawmakers, Rosenbaum applied for a medical license in Virginia, where he will soon work shifts instead of North Carolina. “I really do find fulfillment and enjoyment caring for the women in North Carolina,” he said. “But the people of Virginia are good people too, right? Why would I not choose the location where there’s less risk of a bad outcome?”

    Obstetricians are a strained resource in North Carolina.

    Twenty-one of 100 counties are considered “maternity care deserts,” which means they have no hospitals providing obstetric care, no birth centers, no OB-GYN and no certified nurse midwives. Seventeen more counties are considered “low access,” a designation given to areas with limited services and a high proportion of uninsured women.

    OB-GYNs who have completed additional specialty training, like maternal-fetal medicine doctors, are in even higher demand. In North Carolina, Teal almost always double-booked her appointment slots to fit in patients who had traveled from across the state to see her, she said. These shortages are concentrated in rural parts of the state, where recruiting doctors is difficult.

    When Dr. Katie Borders has an OB-GYN opening at her practice in Shelby — a small town about an hour west of Charlotte — she said it often takes more than a year to fill. In the Outer Banks, it could take up to two years, said Dr. Daniel Dwyer, an OB-GYN in Nags Head. Rosenbaum doubts the abortion restrictions will cause a mass exodus of doctors — he knows state laws are just one factor in a complicated decision about where to live and practice.

    But for the rural hospitals where he used to work, losing just one physician could mean the difference between life and death.

    “Even if statistically it’s like a rounding error, it’s not a rounding error for that woman who’s having an emergency at a hospital with no OB-GYN,” he said.

    Read more...
     
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  8. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    It gets funny when pro loifers (who I side with in late term abortions) start throwing around their r****ded life begins at conception bullshit and then try to use science in a laughable way (yes please tell me why the trillions of mucosa cells shed every day are more different than this one, and yes you can induce stem cells in these and differentiate them later so pls don’t scream “buT onE haS thE pOtEnTIal bAbY”

    just take your hands out of wombs and stfu. It really isn’t that hard, but evangelicals unfortunately dictate what the majority are perceived as. Republicans running hard on this need to give it up. They will be the ones responsible for giving us senile biden
     
  9. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    the poll had it as a coin flip, so it was off by just a tsunami's worth

    Alabama Democrat Wins Special Election Running on Abortion and IVF Access - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

    Democrat Running on Abortion and I.V.F. Access Wins Special Election in Alabama
    Marilyn Lands flipped a State House seat in the deep-red state by 25 percentage points, underscoring the continued political potency of reproductive rights.

    Ms. Lands defeated her Republican opponent, Teddy Powell, by about 25 percentage points — an extraordinary margin in a swing district where she lost by seven points in 2022.
     
    Reeko, Andre0087, TheFreak and 3 others like this.
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    As the IVF issue has shown is that many people didn’t think of the implications of banning abortion. It was easy pre Dobbs to just talk about abortion in terms of people doing so out of convenience when there are many abortions which are medically necessary and involve many other reproductive issues.

    Abortion was illegal in Ireland long after it was legalized in the UK and most of the EU. It took the death of a woman who was trying to get an abortion for a failed pregnancy leading to major health complications there that finally got abortion legalized there.
     
  11. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    Such a losing issue for the GOP, but they sold their soul to pack the Court to get it done. Between Trump/MAGA and Dobbs, there’s a reasonable chance we are witnessing the death of the modern Republican Party.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    We will see - they still are the betting favorite for controlling the government in 2024.
     
    ROCKSS likes this.
  13. adoo

    adoo Member

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  14. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    What women want ...

     
  15. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    https://www.meidastouch.com/news/fl...mar1juana-initiatives-to-remain-on-the-ballot

    In two major rulings today, the Florida Supreme Court has agreed to keep two ballot initiatives, one dealing with abortion rights in the state, and the second dealing with recreational use of mar1juana, on the state's ballot this November. Previously, both ballot initiatives were challenged in court, and the challenges were supported by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody.


    The first initiative, titled "Amendment to Limit Government Interference with Abortion" also known as Amendment 4, would enshrine abortion rights in the Florida Constitution, specifically stating that "no law shall prohibit, penalize, delay, or restrict abortion before viability."

    The ruling today will allow the initiatives to remain on the Florida ballot this November. Although the ruling is a major win for abortion activists and pro-mar1juana activists, it is not the end. For the initiatives as to pass, more than 60% of Floridians need to vote in favor during the elections.
     
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  16. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Contributing Member

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    The way it should be, let the voters decide. If the majority don't like it, they can vote NO, if they do, they can vote yes but it should be what the PEOPLE want, not what some hypocritical politician tells them what's good for them. I am a little surprised you have to get over 60% though, it makes it harder than the 51% you would think it would take..........................Good luck Floridians
     
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    The only chance for Democrats to win the FL senate seat is to focus on abortion. It’s likely the Democrats best strategy to hold onto the OH senate seat.
     
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  19. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    60% is a tall order but doable from what we have seen elsewhere.
     

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