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Sengun/FVV-centric offense won't survive long term

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mathloom, Jan 4, 2024.

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What should we do with the offense?

  1. Don't change anything

    45.8%
  2. Cut down FVV's 2PT shots and spread the wealth

    32.7%
  3. Other

    21.5%
  1. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    There is such a logjam at the 3, someone needs to go to get Cam a firm rotation spot.
     
    T for 3 likes this.
  2. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I'd like to see some Spain.

    I'd also like to see more inverted PnRs. This probably wouldn't work with FVV, but I think using Cam, Brooks, Smith or Tari as a screen for Sengun would be an interesting thing to add to the playbook to get those guys to kick out for threes. Usually, inverted PnRs are usually with the screener popping out to 3 point land, but I wonder if the Rockets could use it as a way to get the ball to Jabari or Amen in the paint.
     
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  3. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Yeah I would like to see that as well but I also think this would be more effective once Sengun extends his range - as much as people are fawning over his play this year, he really does need to add that 3rd level scoring capability to his bag to open up the offense if he is really going to be the SenHub of our dreams. Right now defenses don't respect his range out to three which is why we generally find our offense most effective with Sengun mostly operating within a pivot foot of the high post. We have to be able to extend range a few feet for both Sengun AND for our shooters in order to open lanes up to allow more cutting to allow us to take advantage of some of the athleticism guys like Jalen, Amen, and Cam can bring.
     
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  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    The Warlock can run the offense just fine.

    DD
     
  5. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

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    When your "star" shooting guard is considered to have a good game shooting 5-15, that is where the issue is. You have a slot for an offensive guard that is being utilized by someone that has not been efficient at all, if he was playing as advertised we would be a top 4-5 team in the conference right now. A couple of games we missed Dillon Brooks due to injury that I think we may have won with him. Jalen has to do better, or whoever is getting the minutes at SG needs to do better. If all else remained the same, and we did make that proposed deal for SGA for Jalen, we would be the best team in the league right now.
     
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  6. Sengun

    Sengun Member

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    We just saw what if it won't work.

    Keep shooting Jalen and Jabari. Maybe one day you made one.

    If Sengun and FVV can't drops 20-25 per night, Rockets can't win any game.
     
    ramotadab likes this.
  7. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    no sht if u pay fvv that much money and he doesnt show up it's pretty obvious we arent winning
     
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  8. Noob Cake

    Noob Cake Member

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    It literally doesn't matter. Any team with FVV ain't going anywhere.

    We are just trying to play winning basketball so the kids can develop correctly.

    FVV isn't a winning player when he is your top option. If he is like your 4th best player, sure he is fine.
     
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  9. Little Bit

    Little Bit Member

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    Oh you mean the guy that won a championship?
     
  10. Melik

    Melik Member

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    Here you go, the game wasn't played through Sengun and FVV? What happened? Were you satisfied with the games played through green and jabari? Stop this nonsense.
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    So now we are going to blame this loss on Jalen?

    Jalen's usage actually has a decent bump on wins vs losses.


    Sengun for his standards had a sub par game. It wasn't the fault of "playing through Green". Sengun would blame himself not Green.
     
  12. mfastx

    mfastx Member
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    Lol I know this Melik guy is a troll but that's a hilarious comment. They approached this game no different than any other, Sengun just got shut down tn unfortunately.

    Jabari barely touched the ball, I would like to have seen him and Green get up more 3s tn when the team is shutting down the interior.
     
  13. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    He was the 5th scoring option that primarily came off the bench on that team.

    Winning player? Yes
    Ideal as a top option? Not likely
     
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  14. Melik

    Melik Member

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    Did I accuse Green? Read my comment carefully.
     
  15. Melik

    Melik Member

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    I'm tired of this troll talk. You're the troll, loser. I said the game was 30 minutes on green and jabari. What didn't you understand? Don't write empty comments. Take a good look at the comments I wrote, are you the troll or me? Don't forget to include yourself in the evaluation. Empty guy.
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    I don't like either of those options. I would just rather go MDA style very cut and dry easy mismatch for our SG to attack with Alpi taking a breather and spacing the floor from whichever spot he has his highest 3PT%. This is to alternate when the FVV/Sengun PnR needs help.

    However, better plays than that have been suggested earlier in the thread. Please feel free to refer back.

    Late in the clock leave it to whoever messed up the play, there's not much difference who takes the shot so not sure why dump it to Jalen. He's already struggling with his scoring, now going to give him some late clock shots? I don't know. We should be getting Jalen 2-4 more transition/lob opportunities. Not using his athleticism.
     
    #176 Mathloom, Jan 6, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2024
  17. kubli9

    kubli9 Contributing Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  18. carl_herrera

    carl_herrera Member

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    This is a key point. There’s lots to like in the progress this year, and Sengun is an incredibly good offensive player for a 21 year old, but we can’t forget about spacing and how it affects everyone on the floor.

    Generating offense via ground bound isolation moves in the paint has real negative externalities: cutting, offensive rebounding, and most importantly finishing for everyone else on the floor take a hit because the paint is always crowded with defenders in position.

    Long-term, we’ve got to figure out ways to keep the lane as open as possible in a Sengun offense.
     
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    FVV was averaging 13.9 FGA's on the season when this thread started.

    Since this thread started (4 games), FVV is shooting less and driving less averaging 10.5 FGA almost 70% of which have been 3PA's. He's only averaging 1.5 FTA's so I'm guessing he's driving to the rim a lot less. It has not affected his defense or passing which remain elite. It has not impacted anyone else badly. Guess what happened? Jalen/Cam/Amen played and coincidentally they played better than usual and we're 3-1 despite missing Brooks and Tari for most of that. Jabari has played good basketball during that stretch too, but I still think he needs more shots.

    In losses this season, FVV averages 18 points and 10 assists. In wins, he averages 16 points and 7 assists. Read that again. He's had to carry the load because the other options were too raw but we know there are now options worth testing. He has cut down his FGA from last season which is why I know that he genuinely cares about what's best for the team. We are heading in the right direction, and as I suspected Fred and Ime are on board. Ime's a playoff warrior, he knows what will happen if we play a veteran playin team with Sengun/FVV as our core offense. It's the perfect time to bring in new elements.

    Our defense and our FVV/Sengun PnR have taken us further than we ever imagined and we should be grateful. We don't have to spend the rest of the season improving those things 0.1% a week and hoping that will save us. We're at a diminishing returns point on those things. Don't stop improving, but don't close your eyes to the fact that we have invested years of losing and money in several other options. Those options must come through now so that we can add some diversity to our offense. If I'm Stone, I do not accept from Ime that none of Jalen, Amen, Cam or Jabari can take some offensive load off FVV/Sengun halfway into the season.

    Could all be a coincidence cause the sample is small and there's noise in these stats, but an interesting example to discuss. Want to see what people don't like about the team when FVV is more of a defender/passer/shooter and less of a driver to the basket.
     
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  20. cmlmel77

    cmlmel77 Up all Night Watching Houston Sports

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    I just want to thank you and @Joe Joe for this dialogue (and others like @Mathloom for contributing to the thread). It is nice to read and learn something instead of seeing yet another perfunctory “Jalen sux”, “shooting is good,” or meme-based post.

    That said, you assume too much knowledge (or I am just too ignorant). What is Spain action?
     
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