Sengun/FVV-centric offense won't survive long term

Nah, I'm a Jalen fan but actually the crux is that when Jalen (or Cam or Amen - though for me personally Amen looks the least promising of the bunch if we're talking about offense) asserts himself and takes that role, he'll have it. The system isn't maximised for either Cam or Jalen's skillsets, that's true, but the talent level there is such that if they're going to be what we hope, the system will evolve to accommodate them, not the other way around. This isn't a concern if Jalen's good and great games become the norm because when he's on he can breathe and put up 20 points, and when that happens everybody eats. But he needs to make that happen. Same goes for Cam, if he pushes past Jalen he still needs to get to the 22-28 points on good efficiency consistently or we're still in the same spot. Amen you're waiting years, people need to take the goggles off there he's infinitely more raw than Jalen is and it's not even close. One of the kids needs to step up in the next 2 years on the wing, they MAYBE get a break if they have good D and Bari breaks out into a 30pt scorer himself, which is possible actually but I think he looks more like a 25/10/2blocks (maybe 1 steal) swiss army knife guy tbh.

 

Did you know that Denver is literally dead last in the league for PnR frequency.

The bread and butter of their offense is built around Jokic post ups, hand offs, cuts and spot ups all through moving and screening around Jokic. We literally don't do any of that, nobody moves when the PNR is going on, nobody moves when. Sengun is in the post.

It's an entirely different system

 

I thought your suggestions were going to be something like more curl action for Jalen or some high low plays between Sengun and Jabari when teams commit to the double team. Instead, it's iso possessions for Cam/Amen/Jalen/Jabari. That sounds like a terrible idea to improve the offense.

 

I think you need to go watch what Denver runs, especially in crunch time. Also, Alpi literally hands the ball off to somebody on almost every possession. Also, when he is in the post people cut, a lot. Not nearly as much as they should though...thats why we are 9th in the west and not higher. You are fighting a loosing battle here trying to argue that Ime isn't looking directly at Denver and Jokic in the way he uses Alpi.

You are confusing the idea that it doesn't look exactly the same with the idea that we aren't trying to use Alpi like Jokic, because we obviously are.

 

He still lives in Harden/Morey world. He misses those days, badly. That's why he is stuck on this idea that wide open mid range shots are bad and he really needs Jalen to turn into that guy.

 

This does not make sense. If he doesnt drive or shoot mid range, he wont be opening up his or others game. You do not need such a deeeeeep analysis for that. Think about fundamentals. If you want to give FVV shots to others, then the lucky other has to create for his team. Which one of those guys would you rather give the ball for that? I do not see the better outcome from any of them at this moment.

Does not make sense.

 

The only thing the offense needs to change, assuming no change in personnel, is more off ball movement.

More Cam minutes and less Tate minutes would probably help too. But that might mess up the defense.

 

Tate is a dead end. Rather than making him learn offense, it is a much better idea to teach cam defense, though in the short run it might have a cost.

 

This idea that you can take away Fvv’s drives to the basket and give those shots to someone else, as if that would not affect the rest of Fred’s game, sounds like someone who has never played the game before. If Fred does not drive then defenders will play up on his 3s, where he shoots 40% now, those 3s will no longer be open without the threat of drives. Yes he is inefficient on layups, but that’s only a piece of his overall offensive puzzle, as a whole he is perfectly fine efficiency wise, and in fact is 1b to the Rockets offensive engine.

The problem for our offense is that we have a wildly inconsistent and inefficient sg gobbling up usage. If Ime deserves any criticism it is that he has given Jalen so much rope to hold the team back. There is nothing Ime can do to magically make Jalen a better player, it was the GM and delusional fan’s fault for thinking Jalen was something he is not.

 

FVV is shooting 41.9% inside the arc, not 40.5%. Those aren't the only shots you're trying to replace, you're calling for more isos for Cam/Amen/Jalen/Jabari which reduces total plays for FVV and Sengun. Iso plays do not increase efficiency. If it did, Dwight would be a great low post option.

Two fewer FVV layups does not mean two more Jabari layups. You don't understand that you can't replace a certain play with another player's. The offense has to create those shots. Clint Capela shoots 62.6% for his career. Why doesn't he get more attempts? Because the only way to him to get those shots efficiently is to be assisted on them. Someone else needs to make the play. You seem to understand this because you're not calling for more Dillon Brooks layups even though he's shooting 53% inside the arc, but Jalen's marginally better than FVV's 44.7% inside the arc calls for more attempts. You're simply overestimating Jalen and Jabari's iso abilities. They are not comfortable doing this yet.

 

He is good enough to know this (bolded). His judgement is clouded by his 30 game mark, is probably the reason to this. I would move my mark, it definitely makes way more sense.

Jalen strikes me as a bit of a slow learner (or slower to integrate the ideas to a fast paced action) compared to his peers so @Mathloom maybe move the mark to, say, allstar break and reassess. More fair to Jalen, otherwise I am afraid you are setting him up for disappointment.

 

FVV shoots 65% of his shots from outside 16 ft and his avg shot distance is 19 ft. I think only Curry has a farther avg shot distance for starting PGs. Yeah he's always been terrible at the rim and it isn't a staple of his game. Only 11% of his shots are coming within 3 feet. You are complaining about less than 2 shot attempts per game.

It would be great if we had a reliable guard that could get to the rim, scores consistently, and makes good decisions with the ball in hands, or is able to get open and score off screens....but we don't. Yes Green shoots better at the rim when he gets there, but what do you want him to do? Be the primary ball handler and creator for the offense? FVV has one of the best ast/to ratios in the league and the team is clearly better with his decision making. Do you want Green or another perimeter player to take the ball out of FVVs hands?

And I was never mad at Jalen lol...he is what he is. It's not like he gets to the line a ton either. He has great quickness, but his handles aren't good enough to get by his man reliably without turning it over. Also, he has a lower TS% than FVV even though FVV is terrible at the rim.

I don't even really understand this thread. Are you trying to say FVV is too selfish and doesn't do a good job creating for others? Are you trying to say he drives too much and shoots too often from close range? We already know he is terrible with layups and he's changed his game accordingly.

That would be great if Cam gets to that point, but he isn't there yet. He's best in transition or having others create for him in the half court. FVV has cut his field goal attempts by 2 per game this year. If you can't tell he does pass regularly to others who shoot better at the rim or if they are open on the perimeter. What PG could we realistically get that is a better fit than FVV at this point?

 

The answer to all of this is more Cam and more Amen. Less Green, less Tate.

 

It doesn't matter your offense scheme. It won't work if you cannot knock down open shots and you commit numerous unforced turnovers. Jalen was 1-6 in the first half yesterday and 5 out of 6 shots were open shots. FVV, Brooks, Tate, Sengun are all non-shooters and that's why the SG spot needs to be elite in shooting. Denver's offense looked ugly when Murray was hurt. This is not Jalen's fault that other starters cannot shoot, but in order for our team to go to the next level Jalen needs to be able to shoot. That's why Sengun always get double-team because the opposing teams know that you can't make them pay. This is Stone's job to fix this.

 

good piece. Teams are moving away from pick and roll and doing elbow handoff options like Pacers and Kings.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/a...ion-pick-and-rolls-stats-adjustments-counters

 

Other: either need a shot creating shooting 2/3 or to wait for Jalen, Amen or Cam to develop into a repeatable credible offensive threat

Most of the team (outside of Fred and Alperen) are scrappy 3&D wings for now.

 

I wonder if LaVine and Drummond could be pried away from underperforming Chicago? Maybe Caruso, too.

 

Baby steps..... we really have no idea what the roster will look like next season or in two.