I was high on Black as well but ultimately arrived at Amen over him. It’s nice to see Black’s shooting improve over his college year but the problem for him and ultimately why I liked Amen over him is his speed with the ball is lacking as PGs go and that somewhat negates the opportunities he can create as a passer. He’s kind of straight line runner - not shifty, not an explosive first step. I seem him more as a Kyle Anderson type(who I really like as a high level processor of the game) with better passing skills and a better defensive frame. In other words - even with improved shooting I’m not sold on Black as the better player because ultimately they are different PG archetypes.
Aside from a few fancy passes, what did Sengun show a dozen games into his rookie season made anyone think he'd be a unicorn? The other "unicorn" in the 21 draft class Scottie Barnes. By far, the biggest question mark for him was his outside shooting. Did anyone predict that he'd be a more efficient shooter than Cade or Jalen?
Ahh - my bad. I believe the context from earlier we were discussing is his shooting percentages. I wasnt trying to imply he has been bad a bad player generally- his loose handles, bad shooting(particularly up close), and being a little slow to respond to other players first steps earlier in the season(he seems to be adjusting well now - maybe related to the ankle issue at the start of the season) are about the only knocks I have on him so far this young season. He is already showing me some savvy defensive skills that rookies typically don’t have, makes great quick passes, and shows a patience rare for rookies. This kid is just cut differently in the best kind of way.
Sengün played in one of the better leagues (Turkish league and International games) and was named MVP of that league..... Most American players just want to be famous.....but other than the NCAA March Madness championship there are no high end competition. Americans want to dunk and run and gun or shoot like Curry from Day 1 and that has been to the detriment to a lot of players..... They teach better fundamentals and early basketball over in Europe.....players like Doncic, Jokic and Sengün are just players who are following in the foot steps of great European players. Chet Holmgren is the closest to an American who plays like an Old School European. Scottie Barnes IMO is just a talented American who can do a lot of things well..... I think Barnes is a very good player but there will be better players.
It's absolutely opearting from the benefit of hindsight. . Lile I said I saw his best game live - he just seemed like a much more comfortable NBA player than Thompson and his jumper (which mostly went IN that night) seemed like he was unafraid to spot up in the corner and take. Orlando is lucky because they have 2 bigger players who can face up and operate at the top of the key in Wagner and Banchero and so their guards can spot up in the corners. Thompson you always heard the scouts talkinga obut the fast twitch athleticism - I get that, but basketball skills would be nice too. Also, in hindsight, watching the OTE show on Amazon Prime, OTE seems like kind of a joke.
This is just silly. Belief? Plenty of people out there have shooting, belief and BBall IQ. They kill at the Y pickup games with other 40-year old white dudes or as 4-year college seniors who never get drafted. The NBA is littered with mediocre-shooting stars and super-shooting busts. Your “ranking” is just a paean to the lunchpail, gym rat, hard working archetype you have always fetishized. The correlation between those traits and actual NBA success is not strong.
Situational context matters - Cade and Jalen have been doing much harder things as focal points of their team’s offense. Barnes and Mobley walked into their team situations with far better infrastructure to allow them time to develop their offensive skill set with none of the burden that goes along with being the main offensive facilitator for the entire team. Scottie could focus on defense and hitting open shots when he was playing with FVV, Og, and Siakam - Jalen and Cade have had no such luxury. In a lot of way’s Sengun’s emergence along with FVV is allowing Jalen somewhat to get back to basics in that regard but we aren’t going to see the fruits of that immediately -it’s going to take a few months AND Jalen accepting that role to get there.
one of the first games he was the true point guard in his minutes and the benefit showed. he has the skillset no one has on the team to be able to generate looks for others but needs to really work on his handle this off-season. that would be priority #1 because there is isn't a defender in the NBA that can stay in front of him.
He rebounds in traffic better than anyone on the team, his skip a man passes keeps the offense flowing, he can rebound and push the ball up the floor, and I love the way he competes on defense especially when switched on a big. He looks more capable of guarding on the post than Jabari. He will average 8 rebounds and 9 assist a game win the near future. He too versatile to suck imo.
If you saw his best game, you saw 25% of his career NBA made 3s to date. Take that game out, and he's a ~30% 3P shooter on the year.
Sure, Amen Thompson is 17% and he's seemingly afraid to shoot the ball most of the time and teams sag WAY off him - that's a way bigger red flag to me.
If y’all can’t see the skill level with Amen, then idk. What the kid needs is NBA minutes with ball in hand.
You can't base what you saw in one game as what they will do long term. If the only game you saw from Amen was last game you might think he's a good shooter as well but he's not ATM. With that said Anthony Black is who I wanted at #4. I watched a lot of him in college and in the pros I think the reason he has shot at a good clip so far is because he usually just sits in the corner and takes open shots with no pressure. He's not a good shooter yet either. What you ARE missing imo, is the fact that he has a very good handle and can run point guard duties quite well, other than outside shooting. But his most outstanding quality imo is his BBIQ! I saw it in college and I think it will eventually bear out in the pros. He just almost always makes the smart/right play. He knows when and where to pass, and he really understands team defense and when to hedge or help out on someone else's man. IMO he's better at making layups around the rim as well. He knows how to use his body to play bully ball. (But he DOES have the advantage of playing alongside much better creators like Banchero and Wagner) All this and he's more than a year younger than Amen. He's just as tall (6'7'') and heavier than Amen too. Just not the uber athlete. And here's one for ya". I think he plays defense more like Ausar than Amen does. See if anyone can figure that one out!
I'm pretty sure this offseason i said that if the rockets ended up with Victor W I would love to see this lineup. Black Green Brown (celtics) Jabari Victor W Bench: Eason It wasn't in the cards though. This lineup has a chance to be great as well though. Amen Thompson Green Whitmore Jabari Sengun Bench: Eason
They are both interesting players - I also went back and forth on Black vs Amen and I think ultimately they are similar enough that I think Amen's higher ceiling nudges him ahead of Black. Black can be a very good NBA point guard if he hits but Amen could be elite with a similar skill sets - they both process the game well and make good reads. I agree that Black has a much tigher handle than Amen but they are both poor shooters and Black struggled to get seperation on certain matchups in college and projects to have similar troubles in the NBA. It doesn't shock me that Black is finding more defensive success at this early stage because Amen's frame needs more muscle but as his frame fills out, I expect that to be less of a differentiator. Ultimately I think given the real uncertainty this summer of whether we had drafted any foundational pieces when the draft occured, Amen was the better highest ceiling/best available at the time. If we had more of a positive read on Jalen or Alpi this past summer(that's really starting to come into view only this season), I think maybe there would have been more discussions of what the "best fit" looked like for our core but we didn't and thus Amen was the better pick.
If we're second-guessing ourselves, maybe we should be talking about Cason Wallace instead of Anthony Black? Wallace has been outplaying Black in almost every metric, and I believe he actually will continue to be a very good shooter, while I have some remaining doubts about Black in this sample size. Overall, I still think the Rockets made the right pick for the reasons @glimmertwins stated. We did not have a proven star player at the time, and the whole point of tanking is to find that guy. Amen had and still has the best upside of the players available to us at #4. Some of our posters appear to have correctly "called their shot" with Sengun, so kudos to them, but it was by no means a sure thing this past offseason.
Smaller guard but we'll see. Wallace comes off the bench while Black starts. What's most depressing to me is that we may have selected the ONE 1st round Kentucky guard that didn't pan out! The only player besides Black I'm having slight buyers remorse on is Bilaal Coulibaly. He hasn't been great yet and he comes off the bench but in some of his highlight games he REALLY POPS! 6'8'' with a 7'3'' wingspan and has a pretty decent handle already and can palm the ball easily (can Amen palm it?). I've seen him drive in for some monster dunks in his highlights. (wish Amen would do that) And he's only 18 years old! I really don't want him to be good because of Wemby stating he was better than the twins before the draft (after Wemby was smugly happy when we lost the top 4 lottery). But in truth I think he has a chance to be really good!
The 'analysis' and declarations about a rookie who hasn't even gotten to play steadily enough to even justify this thread is mind numbing.
