Biggio went the All-Star game 7 times in his prime. I don't know how many of those were a result of fan voting - but that's a pretty decent number. I've done a deep dive into the Bagwell All-Star situation, and it really came down to three factors: 1) he was a notoriously slow starter; 2) he played during a prime era of some pretty ridiculous 1B numbers (McGwire, Galaraga, Helton in Colorado); 3) he was often a victim of the one All-Star/team - where, too often, a 1B was the best player on very bad teams. Four times, Bagwell posted a .900+ OPS at the break and didn't make the team. He was a victim of circumstance. I know that's not really your point - I think your point is valid, for sure. But Bagwell should've been to the ASG many more times than just four.
But what were their numbers during the playoffs??? Both of those guys were like Harden... Great in the regular season, but would be a Ghost during the playoffs... T_Man
The "bad playoffs numbers" take is played out. Neither Biggio nor Bagwell had the opportunity nor protection in the lineup that the Golden age players have had. Besides, they get a bad rap. Their numbers are not terrible. Merely mediocre. Altuve had .242 OBP and .241 SLG w/ 4 GIDP and 14 Ks in 66 PAs in the playoffs last year. Biggio had about 3× that many PAs in his entire career and had .295 and .323 with only 1 GIDP and 30 Ks. Take away 2005, when he was playing w/ 1 arm, and Bagwell had only 116 PA his entire career. .353 OBP and .337 SLG with 2 GIDP and 24 Ks. Both of those are much better than Altuve's 2022 Hitting against the best pitchers of the best teams, who are geared up against you, anyone can have a bad playoff series and some don't get much chance to overcome it by getting 60+ PA every year for over half a decade
The randomness of baseball can be hilarious sometimes. Until Altuve's cycle, I had completely forgotten that Brandon Barnes is on the Astros list of players to have hit for the cycle. I still can't believe J.R. Towles is still the record holder (shared with Yuli now) for most RBIs in a single game.
Biggio's playoff OPS is twice as close to '23 Maldonaldo than mediocre. Bagwell stunk it up pretty good. Mediocre might apply, but that's being generous. Altuve's wretched '22 still has him one of the greatest playoff players in history.
I really can't believe, in 2023, we're still having this conversation about the postseason... Do you think Jeremy Pena is a better player than Jeff Bagwell? If your answer is yes, please see yourself out. But if your answer is no, as it should be - consider *why* your answer is no. The postseason is a random, small sample size that is not reflective - good or bad - of how good a player actually is. Give a good player enough postseason PAs and - far, far, far more often than not, their numbers in the postseason will look a whole lot like their regular season numbers. Here, I'll prove it: Altuve, regular season: .307/.364/.469/.834; Altuve, postseason: .271/.344/.500/.844 If Jose Altuve begins to approach Jeff Bagwell's career numbers, at some point, his postseason heroics are going to close the gap. I have no problem with that. But under no circumstances should 425 postseason PAs - which is, like, four times as many as Bagwell - trump nearly 10,000 regular season plate appearances.
Sorry for the derail, but I can't help myself. What a day that was to be an Astros fan. #IStillHateTheMets Spoiler
No sure what your point is. A player's career is more than regular season or postseason -- it's BOTH. Altuve's career is more than postseason, same way Bagwell's is more than regular season.
But... it's really not. Bagwell has 129 career postseason plate appearances. Do you realize that's roughly the total of a single month of baseball? Why in the world would we give one month of baseball equal consideration with an entire career? That's just silly. The postseason can be a cherry on top. If two players are fairly close, career-wise, it can serve as a tiebreaker. But to let such an incredibly small sample size close a large gap between two players.... it just defies common sense.
Nobody said anything about *equal*. That's just an assumption made to help justify Bagwell's failings. Playoff games are more valuable per capita. Regular season matters more overall. Specifically regarding Jeff, his production decreased so badly in the playoffs, it is and justifiably so, a major talking point when considering his career. Still a HOF though, obviously true.
Common sense is that winning the WS in 2017 is the greatest feeling an Astro fan can have. You can take your playoffs don't matter argument somewhere else.
This has been gone over multiple times by multiple people. First, his numbers aren't that bad. Second, many times he did not have much help in the lineup Third, he got better every year until he was finally unable to play due to his shoulder. Fourth, he never even had 15 ABs in any year until 2004 which was his best w/ 6 extra base hits and 8 rbi in 12 games.
Yes they were He had the same help as the regular season Good for him Fewer ABs can also allow numbers in a positive direction too (i.e. 1.500 OPS in 3 games). ____ No Astro fan likes the fact Bagwell sucked in the playoffs. But it happened and there's no rewriting history. He's still a great player and a clear legit HOFer
If Pena does what he did last post season a couple of more times, I would consider him a better Astro even if I think he is worst hitter in what should be our lineup during the postseason. I think Robert Horry is better than T-mac.
It is gotta be batting in the eight spot of the order though. Last year, batting well in the 2nd spot was a red herring. His good performance lately is solely due to batting in the bottom 3rd of the order (mostly the 8th spot).
